Game of Thrones

[linus]

Going by the trailer for this week's episode I think it will be referenced

We spent yesterday evening and practically all of today watching series 1 and most of 2 and I feel like a well wrung out emotional rag... also H just popped out for a fag and I warned her 'the night is dark and full of terrors' (by which I meant a wriggling mass of worms and slugs on the doorstep)

Rest of series 2 and as much of series 3 as we can get through tomorrow (plus this new episode of series 4 and the new mad men episode as a palette cleanser, I suppose)... square eyed, you betcha'

[RITH]

That was a very satisfying episode, I thought! Can't believe I'll have to wait another week for it to continue.

[squirrelboutique]

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Here's good article on something I'm struggling to understand from last night's episode. I haven't read the books, but maybe it's presented differently there?

http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499

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http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thr ... al-2014-04

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/04/21/ge ... /#comments

Neither the director, Alex Graves, or Martin come out of this well in their responses... Graves sounds about 13...

Reading fan comments, there's a huge number saying the scene was not just handled wrongly but does the show harm but there's a lot of people who don't get it or worse think it's somehow justified (because they don't like Cersei or don't like Jaime)

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Here's Graves on the same scene in advance of the show's airing... making it quite clear it was rape...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-f ... ene-697733

[Dan Pop-o-matic]

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The Cersei/Jamie scene was horrible to watch. I think the writers wanted to remind us that Jamie is actually an awful person after building up sympathy for him after the last couple of seasons. He was becoming a bit of a fan favourite, despite attempting to kill a child in order to try and keep his incestuous affair with his sister a secret. It's like how Tony Soprano became a "lovable" anti-hero, much to the dismay of David Chase, who did everything in his power to make him unlikable in later seasons. Maybe Benioff & Weiss are doing the same here?

I understand from the books (having never read them) that the scene comes over as more consensual, but is written from Jamie's POV. Perhaps this is just the show's interpretation of this? It's an uncomfortable and problematic development in any case.

I did love the scene with Tywin and Tommen, then Tywin's later scene with Oberyn. I think that making a deal with the latter is going to bite him in the arse at some point. The bit with Tyrion and Pod was pretty heart wrenching.

Glad to have Littlefinger back (despite Aiden Gillan's accent issues). I think Andy might be right about him being behind Joffrey's poisoning and framing Tyrion for it. He seems to want Sansa in some unwholesome way, so getting her husband executed and creating enough chaos to allow her to "escape" seems like a good move on his part.

Getting a little bored of Dany's scenes now. It's all getting a little repetitive really.

[linus]

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I think you may be right about jaime- and the programme maker's intentions, but, I don't want to be one of those book people because the series has 1) made a lot of dense plotting and back story very (for want of a better word) 'televisual', more digestible, pacier and, in a lot of ways, more entertaining and 2) developed characters much more fully and made them more well-rounded (brienne, bronn, ygritte, tywin, for example) but what it delivers in some ways it can dilute in others... in this specific case the show has made what was already an uncomfortable scene (brother/sister have sex next to the corpse of their dead son) into something even more horrible... and, yes, this may be to remind us that jaime for all his charm, panache and devil may care attitude (plus his eventually respectful relationship with brienne) can also be vicious and repugnant... there's a certain section of fandom that sees cersei as nothing but evil and jaime's corrupter which is a complete misreading of both characters in the books and on the tv show... but I think the criticism that says the makers of the show seem to delight in giving us representations of sexual violence may be a fair one... there was no need, in my mind, for them to turn this scene into a rape

the world of the books and the tv series is a misogynist one, we get it, this far into the series it doesn't need to be spelled out again and especially with a female character who has a degree of power, we know she's fucked up and wrong and we know she's fucked up and wrong because of the men in her life (her father, her husband, her twin brother and her eldest son who she clearly realised was a cowardly, nasty little prick but defended all the same- because it was her duty to, I suppose) but she is a character that has agency over her body; a character that gets to decide who she chooses to have sex with and when and where... and this scene robbed the character of that... I'm sure in the books it's cersei's rejection of jaime that sends him into crisis and further on his redemptive path, but this scene won't take us there, unless we're meant to feel sorry for a rapist filled with remorse?

the episode was called 'breaker of chains' and maybe this scene was- in the programme maker's minds- symbolic of the breaking down of the chains that bind the brother and sister together... it just seems to me the wrong way to go about it

it came across as real sledgehammer writing/directing which given what preceded it (the tywin/tommen scene was a highlight) and came after it (arya/the hound, tyrion/podrick, davos/shireen, sam/gilly) shows that a lightness of touch isn't beyond them... we know that already from the previous episodes, series- so why now?

I've seen in some quarters some fans suggesting those who didn't like the scene should 'get over it' or 'pretend it never happened' which seems like gifting the programme makers a big 'get out of jail' card, I hope the scene gets a serious re-edit before it comes out on dvd... there's enough in jaime's backstory to suggest rape is something he finds abhorrent (admittedly he's still in favour of having sex with his sister but both of them seem to accept this is an 'amour fou' and we are in a world where one previous royal family was quite upfront about their inter-sibling shenanigans)...

I don't know, I'm disappointed and there's a lot of people who are, I really hope the show makers reflect and re-edit... there have been many changes from the source material to the tv but this is the only one that's really pissed me off

one other thing, am I the only person who wondered if pod had actually accepted his knighthood (in exchange for giving evidence against tyrion)?

[Dan Pop-o-matic]

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Y'know, I gave Lysa 3 episodes after marrying Littlefinger before she'd take a plunge out of the Moon Door.

I also figured that Cersei would get the Mountain to be her champion in the trial by combat, leading to awesome Oberyn becoming Tyrion's champion. Massive boo to Bronn (though Tyrion seems to have forgiven him).

Arya's going to be a fucking killing machine in a few episodes time.

My fellow fantasy fans may interested to learn that it looks like Patrick Rothfuss's (excellent) Kingkiller Chronicles are being adapted for TV too:

http://www.denofgeek.com/books-comics/t ... ntasy-show

It's not as politically complex as A Song Of Fire And Ice, and is structured a bit oddly, but I am excited to see what they do with it.

(That link contains some mild spoilers if you look at their fantasy cast btw)

[linus]

after watching the most recent episode

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fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkk!

[Dan Pop-o-matic]

after watching the most recent episode

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fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkk!

I concur.

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May have actually shouted "Just kill him already you prick". Possibly the most gruesome death of the series too.

I'm really starting to think that Tyrion might die :(

[islandhopper]

Indeed! This next bit is also a spoiler if you don't even like to have any sort of idea what happens in the next episode...

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Having seen the trailer for next week it seems to be one of those very rare episodes (I think Blackwater is the only other example) where all the action takes place in one location. In this case it will be Castle Black/The Wall. To further the Blackwater comparisons and get you even more excited I later found out that it is directed by Neil Marshall!

[squirrelboutique]

after watching the most recent episode

SpoilerShow

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkk!

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I went through all the emotions available to me in the last ten minutes of that episode. And I still feel awful every time I think about Oberyn. I don't want to know anything from book readers, but I suspect Tyrion's going to get out of this somehow.

[linus]

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wasn't the red viper losing against the mountain a really shit outcome for tywin and cersei? whatever their feelings toward tyrion, tywin wanted to strengthen tommen's role as king by including oberyn on the king's council (forging, presumably, an alliance between dorne and king's landing) and cersei was worried for myrcella's well being (as she's currrently in dorne), now oberyn is dead they've fucked up their own scheming and potentially created further enmity between dorne and king's landing... which for a couple of arch schemers is pretty stupid... they must really hate tyrion...

[RITH]

Indeed! This next bit is also a spoiler if you don't even like to have any sort of idea what happens in the next episode...

SpoilerShow

Having seen the trailer for next week it seems to be one of those very rare episodes (I think Blackwater is the only other example) where all the action takes place in one location. In this case it will be Castle Black/The Wall. To further the Blackwater comparisons and get you even more excited I later found out that it is directed by Neil Marshall!

You were right, and it was quite spectacular!

[linus]

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more giants shooting arrows into tiny little crows

I'm hoping for more mammoths too

and where the fuck is mance?

[squirrelboutique]

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I've already complained about this in other environs, but I found that episode to be really dull with the exception of the aforementioned mammoth and giants. It was just too much battle for too long! And as soon as I saw Ygritte was dying, I was willing her not to use that dang catchphrase of hers. And then she did! Ergggh! It felt cheap.

I am awfully excited about this week though. I'd suspected at least one more big thing would happen (I haven't read the books and don't want hints), and I've seen some chatter that suggests this finale will be a big one!

[islandhopper]

SpoilerShow

I've already complained about this in other environs, but I found that episode to be really dull with the exception of the aforementioned mammoth and giants. It was just too much battle for too long! And as soon as I saw Ygritte was dying, I was willing her not to use that dang catchphrase of hers. And then she did! Ergggh! It felt cheap.

I am awfully excited about this week though. I'd suspected at least one more big thing would happen (I haven't read the books and don't want hints), and I've seen some chatter that suggests this finale will be a big one!

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Apparently the catchphrase is also what she says in the book.

[squirrelboutique]

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I'd figured it happened in the book, too. I liked Ygritte. She deserved better.

[Dan Pop-o-matic]

I think I'm struggling to process what I've just watched. So fucking much happened.

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Arya leaving the Hound to die was chilling, but her adventures in Braavos should be fun. I don't know how I feel about Tyrion killing Shae then Tywin.

My favourite bit was when Varys put Tyrion on the ship, started back for King's Landing, heard the bells, figured out what had happened and turned right back around to get out of town. The look on his face was priceless.

Only 42 weeks to go until the next series!

[linus]

I think I'm struggling to process what I've just watched. So fucking much happened.

SpoilerShow

Arya leaving the Hound to die was chilling, but her adventures in Braavos should be fun. I don't know how I feel about Tyrion killing Shae then Tywin.

My favourite bit was when Varys put Tyrion on the ship, started back for King's Landing, heard the bells, figured out what had happened and turned right back around to get out of town. The look on his face was priceless.

Only 42 weeks to go until the next series!

SpoilerShow

they left out- as far as I can remember and I'm sure they didn't mention it in this season- a massive slice of tyrion's back story which reveals so much about tywin's parenting skills, it may have been mentioned when tyrion, shae and bronn play that drinking game in the second series, when we first meet tyrion... anyway, 'in the books' (dread phrase) jaime reveals the truth to the story that tyrion believes as he frees him (if my memory serves) and that necessitates tyrion's need for revenge and leads to tywin's death on the po