Game of Thrones

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Dan Pop-o-matic
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:27 am

a fog of ideas wrote:
Dan Pop-o-matic wrote:I think I'm struggling to process what I've just watched. So fucking much happened.
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Arya leaving the Hound to die was chilling, but her adventures in Braavos should be fun. I don't know how I feel about Tyrion killing Shae then Tywin.

My favourite bit was when Varys put Tyrion on the ship, started back for King's Landing, heard the bells, figured out what had happened and turned right back around to get out of town. The look on his face was priceless.

Only 42 weeks to go until the next series!
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they left out- as far as I can remember and I'm sure they didn't mention it in this season- a massive slice of tyrion's back story which reveals so much about tywin's parenting skills, it may have been mentioned when tyrion, shae and bronn play that drinking game in the second series, when we first meet tyrion... anyway, 'in the books' (dread phrase) jaime reveals the truth to the story that tyrion believes as he frees him (if my memory serves) and that necessitates tyrion's need for revenge and leads to tywin's death on the po
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Don't get me wrong, I think Tyrion's actions were totally explained in the context of the show. Tywin had it coming as much as anyone in Westeros (I'll miss him though). Shae was a bit less justifiable, and casts Tyrion in a darker light for me. I can see why it happened, a mix of anger, self loathing and betrayal, but it still feel like a line was crossed (for the character, not the show).

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Carys » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:45 pm

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Don't get me wrong, I think Tyrion's actions were totally explained in the context of the show.
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I don't. I think missing that bit out from the book made it a lot weaker and less convincing. Similarly, the difference between Tyrion and Shae's relationship on screen makes everything that happened between them this season really unconvincing. I.'me not especially in love with the books or anything, but I was disappointed about the changes/omissions this time.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by RITH » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:37 pm



Awesome. No spoilers.

Dan Pop-o-matic
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:11 am

Someone appears to have just dropped a massive spoiler for this on a Facebook thread I just happened to be scrolling past (i.e. not actively reading). I'm gutted if it's true for several reasons. Anyway...

The first episode of a season is always a bit meh isn't it? While they get everything set up for the stabby stabby choppy choppy and vaguely pointless nudity to come.
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Still, Jon mercy killing Mance was good, and I had a feeling that Tyrion and Daenerys would be teaming up at some point (not least because my parents spotted Peter Dinklage at an airport in Croatia a while back and I know that's where all the Daenerys stuff is filmed)

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Wheatabeat » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:45 pm

I've just got into all this. Blitzed through seasons 1-4 since the start of the year even though I spent most of the first season having to consult the GoT Wiki to find out what the fuck was actually happening.

I love the Vulture write-up's after each episode. Helped me fill any gaps in without risking spoilers on the wiki.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Mon May 18, 2015 10:31 pm

Sigh
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Another massively gratuitous rape scene which told us fuck all about the characters involved, and seems to exist solely to snap Theon out of his tortured slave state whatever and not being about Sansa at all.

I understand that this happens to a different character in the books, and that this whole plot line is entirely different, so why undo all the recent character work with Sansa by including it at all? I already know Ramsey is a dick.

I've been finding this season a bit meh up to now to be honest, and was actually enjoying this episode until the last few minutes because things seemed to be finally happening. Ah well.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by linus » Mon May 18, 2015 11:59 pm

Indeed
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Yes, it was utterly unnecessary and entirely gratuitous

I don't want to be one of those 'book' people but I will be because I can be, having read them...

On one hand the programme makers pull their punches on so many things, so some of the more appalling events in the books are barely covered, if they are covered at all, in the show and then on the other they invent stuff for no apparent good reason. As the novels are rather sprawling, to put it mildly, this can work in the shows favour, or at least did, but increasingly to the show's detriment, there's so much they've chopped from the show that the world of Game of Thrones has got progressively smaller (less populated) while spread over more locations

Huge swathes of characters have appeared for a series or two and then vanished... what happened to the Brotherhood of Banners? The Freys? The Greyjoys? All those Northern lords? What happened to the Blackfish (Catelyn's uncle) or Catelyn's brother, Edmure?

And what's that got to do with Sansa?

Well, this series could have explored the insurrection (following the Red Wedding) going on in the North, it's interesting, it makes what's going at King's Landing all the more parlous. In the books the North is where Jaime is and it makes you realise how much 'the North remembers' the Starks and Jaime is in a vulnerable position (but equips himself rather better than he has in the show), it also plays up the threat from the Whitewalkers and reminds us that 'Winter is Coming', add into that the introduction to Theon's extended family and the various factions spoiling to replace Balon and rather than this current storyline with Sansa in Winterfell (she's still in the Vale in the books) the show could have run with all this other business, widened the world for us... has the show just put Sansa in Winterfell to have her raped and act as spur for redemption for Reek/Theon? If so, why? It's not required in the books, the books have more going on

The show seems to have botched most storylines this season, the Dorne storyline is well shoddy, how many people live in Dorne? From the tv show it seems about 20, they've taken some of the most interesting characters (like the Sandsnakes) and just bollocksed them up completely, reducing their number, making them rather uninteresting and changing their motivation from something quite interesting to just plain 'revenge'... how does Bronn recognise Myrcella? And what kind of fuck knuckle diplomatic mission is Jaime attempting? That whole scene in this episode looked cheap and half-assed

And then there was Sansa and Ramsay's wedding... how many people were there? 12? You think even the Boltons would go in for a bit of pageantry, make a show of things but, no, all very rushed, the grand sweep of the world of Westeros has been reduced to a couple of quick scene set ups... the Eastenders cafe has more background talent adding colour and character than GoT does these days

It's so fucking cheap, where's Varys? Why can't they get Roger Allam back in to do a couple of hours shooting as Illyrio to give Varys something to do... the tv show makers are really arsing up their plate spinning, there's all these characters and so many are just forgotten

And then there was the 'inquest', another backroom scene with about 10 people in shot... I'm just getting a bit fucked off with how miserly this series seems (both in budget and ambition), the scope of the thing just seems so reduced, the convoluted plotting of the first couple of seasons has been replaced by some very simple 'this person is bad, this person is less bad, let's root for the less bad one', it's just all very unsatisfying

I appreciate they have to change stuff, that there are budgetry restrictions but in racing through many aspects of the books plot, chopping out huge chunks of story and getting shot of more than half a cast of characters they've lost something and that's best illustrated by this 'wedding night' scene, that didn't need to happen, that adds nothing, that reminds you what's been excised, that reminds you why the books- as long-winded as they may be- have some depth, some degree of humanity amongst all the gore and ludicrousness... the tv show, at it's worst, just seems to be trolling, at it's best it just seems to be unable to cope with the sheer enormity of the story it's trying to tell, so it goes for 'shock value' and bullshit

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Tue May 19, 2015 8:10 am

Well said.

I was going to leave off reading the books until the series had finished, but from what I hear it's diverged so much I may as well just go for it now. Well, after I've finished the Wheel of Time anyway (five down, seven to go).

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Wheatabeat » Tue May 19, 2015 11:41 pm

a fog of ideas wrote:Indeed
SpoilerShow
Yes, it was utterly unnecessary and entirely gratuitous

I don't want to be one of those 'book' people but I will be because I can be, having read them...

On one hand the programme makers pull their punches on so many things, so some of the more appalling events in the books are barely covered, if they are covered at all, in the show and then on the other they invent stuff for no apparent good reason. As the novels are rather sprawling, to put it mildly, this can work in the shows favour, or at least did, but increasingly to the show's detriment, there's so much they've chopped from the show that the world of Game of Thrones has got progressively smaller (less populated) while spread over more locations

Huge swathes of characters have appeared for a series or two and then vanished... what happened to the Brotherhood of Banners? The Freys? The Greyjoys? All those Northern lords? What happened to the Blackfish (Catelyn's uncle) or Catelyn's brother, Edmure?

And what's that got to do with Sansa?

Well, this series could have explored the insurrection (following the Red Wedding) going on in the North, it's interesting, it makes what's going at King's Landing all the more parlous. In the books the North is where Jaime is and it makes you realise how much 'the North remembers' the Starks and Jaime is in a vulnerable position (but equips himself rather better than he has in the show), it also plays up the threat from the Whitewalkers and reminds us that 'Winter is Coming', add into that the introduction to Theon's extended family and the various factions spoiling to replace Balon and rather than this current storyline with Sansa in Winterfell (she's still in the Vale in the books) the show could have run with all this other business, widened the world for us... has the show just put Sansa in Winterfell to have her raped and act as spur for redemption for Reek/Theon? If so, why? It's not required in the books, the books have more going on

The show seems to have botched most storylines this season, the Dorne storyline is well shoddy, how many people live in Dorne? From the tv show it seems about 20, they've taken some of the most interesting characters (like the Sandsnakes) and just bollocksed them up completely, reducing their number, making them rather uninteresting and changing their motivation from something quite interesting to just plain 'revenge'... how does Bronn recognise Myrcella? And what kind of fuck knuckle diplomatic mission is Jaime attempting? That whole scene in this episode looked cheap and half-assed

And then there was Sansa and Ramsay's wedding... how many people were there? 12? You think even the Boltons would go in for a bit of pageantry, make a show of things but, no, all very rushed, the grand sweep of the world of Westeros has been reduced to a couple of quick scene set ups... the Eastenders cafe has more background talent adding colour and character than GoT does these days

It's so fucking cheap, where's Varys? Why can't they get Roger Allam back in to do a couple of hours shooting as Illyrio to give Varys something to do... the tv show makers are really arsing up their plate spinning, there's all these characters and so many are just forgotten

And then there was the 'inquest', another backroom scene with about 10 people in shot... I'm just getting a bit fucked off with how miserly this series seems (both in budget and ambition), the scope of the thing just seems so reduced, the convoluted plotting of the first couple of seasons has been replaced by some very simple 'this person is bad, this person is less bad, let's root for the less bad one', it's just all very unsatisfying

I appreciate they have to change stuff, that there are budgetry restrictions but in racing through many aspects of the books plot, chopping out huge chunks of story and getting shot of more than half a cast of characters they've lost something and that's best illustrated by this 'wedding night' scene, that didn't need to happen, that adds nothing, that reminds you what's been excised, that reminds you why the books- as long-winded as they may be- have some depth, some degree of humanity amongst all the gore and ludicrousness... the tv show, at it's worst, just seems to be trolling, at it's best it just seems to be unable to cope with the sheer enormity of the story it's trying to tell, so it goes for 'shock value' and bullshit
Agreed with everything about this entirely. What a waste, huh?
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AND the Ayra thread seems to be a bit ploddy too. It's hardly moved in four episodes. I've been really disappointed in this season so far. It sorta happened with Boardwalk Empire too (Season 5 was one too far IMO). All through that final Sansa scene I was just shouting NO! YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THIS FUCKING TERRIBLY. Sigh indeed.

Having said that, I'm loving the Tyrion / Jorah strand. One thing Game of Thrones has always done so well is that kinda odd-couple-on-a-road-trip thang.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:14 pm

I guess we know where 9 tenths of the budget for this season went now.
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I loved all the Jon Snow/conference with the Wildings/massive White Walker attack stuff tonight. Genuinely tense and epic where so much in this season has been meh. Those wraith children might be the spookiest image of the whole series.

I imagine next week will have a massive Baratheon vs Bolton smackdown, which probably accounts for the rest of budget.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Wheatabeat » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:51 pm

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i love seeing seeds and crumbs left over five seasons start to germinate and flourish. It were all proper Hollywood wasn't it?

Do you get the feeling that young lad at the Watch is going to do summat bad to Jon Snur?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:17 pm

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I'm led to believe that that battle scene from last night isn't the books (maybe a reader can confirm). If so they've really gone off the reservation with this one haven't they?

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by linus » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:56 pm

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yeh, iirc (get me), hardhome is referred to in the books and takes up a lot of jon's storyline at the wall, he gets lots of reports of how dire the situation is at hardhome and wants the nights watch to act but there's a lot of resentment to him wanting to help the wildlings... the tv show and books are so different now, the books are still teasing this stuff, effectively but I guess the show is more, erm, show rather than tell... but there's still loads left out of this series that I think would have ratchetted up the tension and meant they didn't have to invent the whole sansa storyline... as somebody who's seen enough adaptations of beloved novels and comicbooks 'lose' a lot in translation from the page to the screen I'm used to the frustration of things often losing depth and breadth and detail to 'make the story more appealling to a wider audience'... shit happens... but the hardhome scenes last night really captured the dread and horror of the books (in relation to the white walkers/others) and I loved the giant and I hope he survives and becomes a regular turn... I wish the female wildling leader had survived too... me and hayley had a bit of a 'heated debate' about how and why she was done away with... in the books there are other leading female wildling characters and they're interesting because they don't take no shit, the equals of their male counterparts without it being something we're supposed to find notable or 'a novelty'... wildling society while made up of lots of warring clans who'd normally be at each other's throats are arguably more progressive in many respects than society south of the wall... so it was a shame that tough wildling woman went all wobbly bottom lipped at the sight of some zombified children because that's what a woman would do... any road up, aside from that, last night's episode raised an otherwise very uneven, often infuriating season out of the mire... hopefully next week's episode will continue in the same vein... providing we don't go back to dorne, which appears to be little more than some bloke's holiday villa and back garden

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:28 pm

Fucking bleak
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I knew Shireen (sp?) was too good for this world (well, that world) and her death has kind of been foreshadowed all season, but bloody hell. One must assume that Davos is going to tell Stannis to shove a big ol' shard of dragonglass right up himself now though. Hopefully.

Dragon vs Sons of the Harpy was fun though right? And that might be the best comic timing I've ever seen on a beheading.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by linus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:37 am

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it is a bleak old world and we do need to remember that stannis is a religious zealot with a hard on for war and being the king, he already 'killed' his brother, killing his daughter for the 'greater good' seems in keeping with his character... I have to keep reminding myself that one of the things that initially appealled to me about GoT is that good and evil, nice and nasty are not diammetrically opposed and often- possibly always- exist in the same vessel (if you believe in moral absolutes like good and evil, that is)... I really enjoyed last night's episode, I hate that programme that's on after but as hayley pointed out roose bolton (he was a guest, or the actor who plays him was) 'in real life' is really quite the dishy derek

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Wheatabeat » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:42 pm

What I want to know was...
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Just how did thousands of Harpies sneak past security with those gold masks under their tunics? Those Unsullied Showsec have a lot to answer for.
BTW I loved this episode.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by paukl » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:02 pm

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did Jorah pass on the stone face disease to Danny when he took her hand, or is she immune?

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Dan Pop-o-matic » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:28 am

OK then:
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I reckon Melisandra is going to resurrect Jon next season. She managed it before a few seasons ago with one of Brothers Without Banners (I think. Fought the Hound or something? A lot has happened). Maybe sacrificing Shireen (NOOOOOOOOOO!) has given her even more power.

We didn't see a body but I reckon Stannis is dead. Briene doesn't seem like the type to piss about when doling out sharp, pointy justice, especially to the man who just admitted killing her beloved Renly.

Dunno what Sansa and Theon's plan was when they jumped.

Was that new King's Guard meant to be zombificated version of Gregor Clegane? Was wondering what had happened to him.

Guess the Dorne woman killing Mycella with serious repercussions, especially as Jamie has Tristain to take hostage. Don't see it leading to war between Westeros and Dorne though since Kings Landing is now basically under the High Sparrow's control and the Dorne army appears to consist of one massive black guy and three attractive-but-deadly teenage girls.

Yay to Tyrion and Varys ruling Mereen!

Think that covers everything

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Gordon » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:25 pm

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Kit Harington's said that he's been told he's not coming back. We thought he might have been written out for Hollywood reasons, but who knows. Maybe he'll be completely CGI next series like Cersei
Toot toot.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Gordon » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:27 pm

Toot toot.

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