STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

we don't know but perhaps a fellow anorak will - ask them here
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Gordon
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Gordon » Thu Jul 23, 2009 14:32

Without my deliberate typo, I hope.
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Mr Bear » Thu Jul 23, 2009 17:11

In this way the campaign was able to deal with the concerns of each stakeholder
Sorted.

The document I'm proofreading that that came from is an entry to some marketing award, and I was just supposed to be picking up on any grammatical or spelling errors, but the sentence construction throughout is so unwieldy that it's taken most of the day to go through and correct. I just couldn't let the entry be submitted how it was.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Mr Bear » Thu Jul 23, 2009 17:20

Argh, they've just used leverage as a verb!

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by humblebee » Thu Jul 23, 2009 18:16

Mr Bear wrote:Argh, they've just used leverage as a verb!
You have my deepest sympathy.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Gordon » Thu Jul 23, 2009 18:18

Why do people even talk like that? Is it people who didn't learn words at school?
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:23

Okay, I didn't write this sentence so don't berate me for its clumsiness.
Of the applications previously received, the following eight projects/individuals were considered as fulfilling criteria set out in The Herald Society Awards nomination categories.
I'm tempted to stick an apostrophe at the end of Awards because the nomination categories 'belong' to the awards. Is that wrong? My brain is in meltdown. I have also lost the ability to determine when to hyphenate and when not to.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Martijn » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:28

I think Awards nomination is just a combination of two nouns, where the former explains what the letter is used for. Like bus stop, train station or computer screen. (I'm sure there's a technical term for word combinations like this.) The nomination isn't "possessed" by the award, like the stop isn't possessed by the bus.

But it is a tricky one.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Gordon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:53

The Herald Society Awards is clearly some sort of event/organisation. Try substituting something similar and see how it would work. For instance, I would say (and have said) "the Green Party Executive Elections nominations" not "the Green Party Executive's Election nominations" or "the Green Party Executive Elections' nominations" more likely I'd say "nominations for the Green Party Executive elections".
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Tue Aug 18, 2009 13:56

I'm not sure I'm any the wiser, but thanks.

More:
the service user-led arm of the project
and
This is a community-based service that is service user led
Should there be hyphens around service user in either of those, and if so, where? I used to know this but I'm getting stupider with age. I think the first one should maybe be service-user-led and the second one is okay as it is. And yes, service user is a loathesome term but we have to use it.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:14

Ignore that question above.

Should it be:
A small number of extra copies of the poster are available
or
A small number of extra copies of the poster is available
?
I say it should be 'is', because it's referring to the small number rather than the extra copies. Colleague has changed it to 'are'. Obviously it would be 'are' without the 'a small number of'.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by humblebee » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:17

Colin wrote:Ignore that question above.

Should it be:
A small number of extra copies of the poster are available
or
A small number of extra copies of the poster is available
?
I say it should be 'is', because it's referring to the small number rather than the extra copies. Colleague has changed it to 'are'. Obviously it would be 'are' without the 'a small number of'.
I'd agree with your colleague here, because although 'number' is grammatically singular, it's pragmatically plural.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by andyroo » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:25

A few extra copies of the poster are available?

I love these pragmatical plurals. Heaps of fun when you're learning another language. Spanish is much stricter about these than English, one refers to, say, a football team or a family in the singular in every case: "Sporting was magnificent on Sunday" instead of "were magnificent", for instance. (And it's not often I get to say that so I'm making the most of it!)
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by humblebee » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:30

andyroo wrote:A few extra copies of the poster are available?

I love these pragmatical plurals. Heaps of fun when you're learning another language. Spanish is much stricter about these than English, one refers to, say, a football team or a family in the singular in every case: "Sporting was magnificent on Sunday" instead of "were magnificent", for instance. (And it's not often I get to say that so I'm making the most of it!)
US English does that as well though, doesn't it? With band names and sports teams. I try not to be all stuffy and prejudiced and I do find US English quite cute sometimes - but that one really winds me up, for some reason!

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by andyroo » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:38

Is that American? I noticed it's crept into Australian sports commentary since I lived there, it just kind of jumped out at me last time I was home. Maybe I mightn't have noticed so much if I wasn't always falling foul of it in Spanish.
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by moopind » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:45

andyroo wrote:A few extra copies of the poster are available?

I love these pragmatical plurals. Heaps of fun when you're learning another language. Spanish is much stricter about these than English, one refers to, say, a football team or a family in the singular in every case: "Sporting was magnificent on Sunday" instead of "were magnificent", for instance. (And it's not often I get to say that so I'm making the most of it!)
Slightly off topic, but does that mean you support Sporting? As in Sporting Clube de Portugal?
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by andyroo » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:51

No, Sporting Gijón in the Spanish league.

Not that I have anything against Sporting Clube de Portugal.
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by moopind » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:58

I see. I lived in Lisbon during the Schmeichel-as-Sporting-goalkeeper days. A terrifyingly accident-waiting-to-happen stadium (especially after a couple of Sagres and a fried pig's ear) but lots of atmosphere. They've got a newer one now. Or should I say 'It's got a newer one now'?

I did that last bit to fend off accusations of straying off topic.
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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:05

humblebee wrote:
andyroo wrote:A few extra copies of the poster are available?

I love these pragmatical plurals. Heaps of fun when you're learning another language. Spanish is much stricter about these than English, one refers to, say, a football team or a family in the singular in every case: "Sporting was magnificent on Sunday" instead of "were magnificent", for instance. (And it's not often I get to say that so I'm making the most of it!)
US English does that as well though, doesn't it? With band names and sports teams. I try not to be all stuffy and prejudiced and I do find US English quite cute sometimes - but that one really winds me up, for some reason!
I know it's not really the same thing at all, but that brought to mind this bit from the Hidden Cameras thread:
humblebee wrote:Yeah, this new stuff isn't grabbing me straight away, I have to say. Maybe it will later... but these have always been such an instant band until now.
It was just the use of 'these'. I thought that was quite unusual. Not in a bad way or anything, it just stuck in my mind.

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by humblebee » Wed Oct 07, 2009 13:31

moopind wrote:I see. I lived in Lisbon during the Schmeichel-as-Sporting-goalkeeper days. A terrifyingly accident-waiting-to-happen stadium (especially after a couple of Sagres and a fried pig's ear) but lots of atmosphere. They've got a newer one now. Or should I say 'It's got a newer one now'?
That is the logical justification that backs up my irrational prejudice against treating sports teams and bands as singular. 'It'. So wrong.

Irrational prejudice + logical justification = WIN.
Colin wrote:I know it's not really the same thing at all, but that brought to mind this bit from the Hidden Cameras thread:
humblebee wrote:Yeah, this new stuff isn't grabbing me straight away, I have to say. Maybe it will later... but these have always been such an instant band until now.
It was just the use of 'these'. I thought that was quite unusual. Not in a bad way or anything, it just stuck in my mind.
I wonder if that's kind of a Grimsby thing. At the football, when we're losing 2-0 at home to Macclesfield or whoever, we always point down to the other team's end of the pitch and say: "It's not even like these are any good!"

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Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Wed Oct 07, 2009 13:42

It probably is a bit of a Grimsby thing (or maybe a northern thing. Does Grimsby count as the north, or is that a massive can of worms?).

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