STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

we don't know but perhaps a fellow anorak will - ask them here
User avatar
Liv
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 17:00
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Liv » Tue Jul 29, 2008 16:39

Gordon wrote:I'm confused, wikipedia says Seònaid is pronounced ˈʃɔːnɛdʒ which (and I have no knowledge of IPA) from wikipedia's help files looks like it should be something like shonnedge. But it's actually Shona? Do I not understand IPA even more than I think I don't understand it?
I can only vaguely remember IPA, but that definitely looks like an "edge" sound at the end. I know people called Seonaid who pronounce it "Shauna", or "Shona", or "Shon-ade", but I've never, ever heard anyone refer to themselves as "Shonnedge". Maybe Wikipedia's been edited by a BOOB.
Don't be thick in front of me.

tommiles001
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:49

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by tommiles001 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 04:33

Seonaid is pronounced SHOW-Nah: SH as in "she (SH.IY)" ; OW as in "oat (OW.T)" ; N as in "knee (N.IY)" ; AH as in "hut (HH.AH.T)"

The mp3 pronunciation can be heard here: http://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Seonaid

islandhopper
Posts: 3441
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 00:44
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/mi-fhein
Location: I belong to Glasgow

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by islandhopper » Mon Aug 11, 2008 09:37

I probably live in the people-called-Seonaid heartland if there is such a thing and you'd mostly hear it here as something like - Shaun-itch. I guess that's the pronounciation of Seònaid as the Scottish Gaelic version of Janet though, but I've never heard it said any other way.

User avatar
Gordon
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 22:33
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/GreenGordon
Location: King's Landing
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Gordon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:08

Wikipedia was right!
Toot toot.

User avatar
Colin
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 23:56
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/colinbmx
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:23

If I'm using bullet points and each one follows on from a sentence (e.g. 'In 2008-9, the organisation will:' and each point continues that sentence), should each bulleted point begin with a capital letter or not?
At work, I'm made to start with a lower case letter for bullets that complete a sentence, and upper case for ones that stand alone. I can see the logic but I think it looks inconsistent and the casual reader won't pick up on why the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't. Any thoughts?

User avatar
humblebee
Posts: 10543
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 16:33
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/atomicbeatboy
Location: Sheffields
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by humblebee » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:52

Colin wrote:If I'm using bullet points and each one follows on from a sentence (e.g. 'In 2008-9, the organisation will:' and each point continues that sentence), should each bulleted point begin with a capital letter or not?
At work, I'm made to start with a lower case letter for bullets that complete a sentence, and upper case for ones that stand alone. I can see the logic but I think it looks inconsistent and the casual reader won't pick up on why the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't. Any thoughts?
Surely the casual reader won't actually notice that the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't?

I do it the same as your work does it.

User avatar
Colin
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 23:56
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/colinbmx
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:56

humblebee wrote:Surely the casual reader won't actually notice that the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't?

I do it the same as your work does it.
I'm not sure. I just think that having some lists capitalised and some not gives the impression of something that has been thrown together and not checked, even if the reasoning behind it is sound. And I do reckon it's quite a subtle distinction that people may miss, but I think they're likely to read it and be left with the impression that it looked a bit sloppy.

User avatar
crystalball
Posts: 5197
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:04
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/felters
Location: That London
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by crystalball » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:10

I know what you mean but the lists are still part of the text and you wouldn't use caps to continue the sentence after 'will', would you? Keeping things consistent is important but it's more important that they are correct.

User avatar
Gordon
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 22:33
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/GreenGordon
Location: King's Landing
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Gordon » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:16

Yes, but then you have the German vs English letter writing convention of whether you put

Dear Gordon,
You are wicked.

or
Dear Gordon.
you are wicked.

I thought English writers go for the first because it looks better (unless they are e e cummings)
Toot toot.

alongwalkhome

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by alongwalkhome » Fri Oct 24, 2008 14:17

Colin wrote:If I'm using bullet points and each one follows on from a sentence (e.g. 'In 2008-9, the organisation will:' and each point continues that sentence), should each bulleted point begin with a capital letter or not?
At work, I'm made to start with a lower case letter for bullets that complete a sentence, and upper case for ones that stand alone. I can see the logic but I think it looks inconsistent and the casual reader won't pick up on why the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't. Any thoughts?
We only use Chicago Manual style, so I don't know if it's different in the UK, but if a list continues the lead-in phrase, the list items are definitely lower case. There's no closing punctionation unless the list item itself is a complete sentence.

Here's the section from CMS:
Vertical lists: punctuation and format
A vertical list is best introduced by a complete grammatical sentence, followed by a colon (but see 6.129). Items carry no closing punctuation unless they consist of complete sentences. If the items are numbered, a period follows the numeral and each item begins with a capital letter. To avoid long, skinny lists, short items may be arranged in two or more columns. If items run over a line, the second and subsequent lines are usually indented (flush-and-hang style, also called hanging indention, as used in bibliographies and indexes). In a numbered list, runover lines are aligned with the first word following the numeral. Instead of indenting runover lines, extra space may be inserted between the items.

User avatar
crystalball
Posts: 5197
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:04
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/felters
Location: That London
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by crystalball » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:00

I've got a very good writer here who insists on hyphenating subject matter. I've never seen it hyphenated but I don't want to go all anti-hyphen on him if it's correct. Does anyone have any views on this fascinating conundrum?

User avatar
squirrelboutique
Posts: 3590
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:05

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by squirrelboutique » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:04

I've only seen that one hyphenated when a third term follows, sort of to clear up confusion. Am I making sense?

subject-matter jurisdiction

User avatar
Martijn
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 20:27
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/thinksmall
Location: Exeter
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Martijn » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:17

squirrelboutique wrote:I've only seen that one hyphenated when a third term follows, sort of to clear up confusion. Am I making sense?

subject-matter jurisdiction
Yes, that is what Wikipedia does too.

User avatar
crystalball
Posts: 5197
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:04
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/felters
Location: That London
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by crystalball » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:23

It's used as an adjective there though, so you'd hyphenate that anyway, wouldn't you? I just don't see why you would use a hyphen when it's used as a noun ("Partly because of their perceived subject matter, these films were mostly ignored"). The only reason I'm questioning myself on this one is because his piece doesn't need any copyediting otherwise - it's perfect. Anyway, I'll delete the hyphens. Thanks for your help!

User avatar
squirrelboutique
Posts: 3590
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 18:05

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by squirrelboutique » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:24

I think they're for sure not needed there. Aren't they added to make sure adjectives go with the right nouns?

I'm not explaining this well, but you're all set anyhow!

User avatar
Martijn
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 20:27
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/thinksmall
Location: Exeter
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Martijn » Tue Oct 28, 2008 17:25

It's a very small sample, but Google says you should indeed delete them.

User avatar
nanski
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:53
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/
Location: she lives by the castle

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by nanski » Fri Nov 28, 2008 19:44

Colin wrote:If I'm using bullet points and each one follows on from a sentence (e.g. 'In 2008-9, the organisation will:' and each point continues that sentence), should each bulleted point begin with a capital letter or not?
At work, I'm made to start with a lower case letter for bullets that complete a sentence, and upper case for ones that stand alone. I can see the logic but I think it looks inconsistent and the casual reader won't pick up on why the first word in one list is capitalised and another isn't. Any thoughts?
ooooh upper case would bug the shit out of me, but i'm funny about that. i would separate the points with commas even if each is a sentence. hmm or maybe semicolons, but no capitals. ick. who would do that. that's wrong. ick. if you want bullet point to be whole sentences, each bullet point has to be a whole sentence, and the thing preceding the whole thing has to be a sentence. yeah?

oh how embarrassing . i'm a hundred years too late. or a month.or whatever. who hyphenates subject=matter. that's fukced up. i'mm drunk and i still wouldn't do it.
big hole! big hole! big hole! big man! big man!

User avatar
Sootyzilla
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 01:31
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/sootyzilla
Location: lounging about at the edge of the dancefloor

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Sootyzilla » Sat Nov 29, 2008 01:39

Bullet points are wrong in general.
As wrong as it was to do,
Those eyes were made to look into.

User avatar
RITH
Posts: 3355
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 08:35
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/RITH
Location: Almere
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by RITH » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:09

I just used a sentence on my blog that ended:

"(...) they're the kind of classics that never tire."

That's not right, is it? Intending to say these songs will never bore me, should it be:

"(...) they're the kind of classics I never tire of (hearing)."

?

User avatar
Colin
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 23:56
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/colinbmx
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Re: STET this STAT: a grammar emergency thread!

Post by Colin » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:47

RITH wrote:I just used a sentence on my blog that ended:

"(...) they're the kind of classics that never tire."

That's not right, is it? Intending to say these songs will never bore me, should it be:

"(...) they're the kind of classics I never tire of (hearing)."

?
The second sentence you've got is pretty much how I'd say it, although I'd leave out 'hearing', because that's implied by the subject matter, and maybe consider writing 'I'll never tire of' or 'I will never tire of'.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest