What's Indiepop?

we don't know but perhaps a fellow anorak will - ask them here
a layer of chips
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Post by a layer of chips » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:41 pm

I may be being deliberatively argumentative cos I'm GASPING for a pint.

Sorry.

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Post by crystalball » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:36 pm

tastyzine wrote:I think that everyone should be allowed to make up their own mind what's pop and what's not.
I think you'll find those decisions are entirely up to me and I make them on Thursday mornings. I regret to inform you that I cannot consider any late submissions.

I'm dying for an alcoholic drink as well but all I can have after work tonight is pommegranate tea. Bugger.

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Post by Simon May » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:00 pm

tastyzine wrote:I think that everyone should be allowed to make up their own mind what's pop and what's not.
True, but it'd be nice to have a definition for the site, though, so those of us who are less conversant with the genre know where to put our threads.

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Post by lynsosaurus » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:04 pm

I don't think it's a massive deal if you put them in the 'wrong' forum or anything. My rule of thumb is that if something doesn't immediately strike me as what I consider to be indiepop, I put it in the other music forum. It doesn't really matter where your threads end up, so don't worry about it too much.

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Post by PCP » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:05 pm

crystalball wrote:

I think you'll find those decisions are entirely up to me and I make them on Thursday mornings. I regret to inform you that I cannot consider any late submissions.
.
Sounds good to me

I find this thread stupidly fascinating I couldnt care less about putting music into catergories beyond that I enjoy listening to it or not

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Post by Contravene » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:32 pm

I sometimes think that Indiepop kind of means grassroots, rather than any style of music. It just means the same thing that 'indie' meant before 1995

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Post by Simon May » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:55 pm

PCP wrote:
crystalball wrote:

I think you'll find those decisions are entirely up to me and I make them on Thursday mornings. I regret to inform you that I cannot consider any late submissions.
.
Sounds good to me

I find this thread stupidly fascinating I couldnt care less about putting music into catergories beyond that I enjoy listening to it or not
Well, me either, but since the forum divides them up, I thought it might be nice to talk about what naturally goes where, and while I'm happy that the forum has a culture that wouldn't necessarily involve heavy-handed moderation, on the other hand, having those separate forums would be redundant if idiots like me go starting threads about, oh, I don't know, REM or Radiohead or King Creosote, in the indie pop forum.

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Post by stolenwine » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:59 pm

don't worry, we'll move the thread if it's THAT huge of a deal ;)
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Post by Simon May » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:21 pm

Well, that's all right, then.

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Post by Contravene » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:28 pm

How difficult would it be to set up a website in the style of Hot or Not, called... "Indiepop or Not", where people get to rate just how indiepop certain bands are. you could pinch the artists list from Last.Fm

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Post by Elvistears » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:13 pm

aww...its nice to see people arguing about whether or not something is indiepop instead of whether or not its indie.

I've often felt that indiepop has a softness somewhere within it, that more commercial pop doesn't. It lacks the brash confidence of "proper" pop (proper not necessarily equalling better, or worse)..

But I can argue myself out of this already. Annie, for example, has a softness, but is clearly not indiepop. The Pipettes are pretty brash but sound indiepop to me.

Can we just start a new genre called tHISISNICE ? We can accept that its utterly subjective and that only the things we like are allowed in it (and if you like it and someone else doesn't, then its tHISISNICE, and they're WRONG). The capitalisation was a mistake, but I liked it, and kept it.

Also, when you go off a band, only their early stuff is tHISISNICE, which would mean it had a lot in common with indiepop.

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Post by Elvistears » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:50 pm

Thinking about this some more - one problem with definitions is the temptation to treat indie, pop and indiepop as static genres - as if a genre that was a combination of indie and pop in the mid 80s could bear any resemblance to a genre that combined indie and pop today. Indie has become a virtually meaningless term (which, I might add, is something of a relief) and pop, in its mass-produced form (think Britney, Justin etc) now seems so brash and heartless as to make even the posturing of the likes of Spandau Ballet and Duran Duran seem somewhat naive and sweet. So, the middle ground has shifted, and it makes no sense to try and put indiepop there now. In fact, some of what seemed like out and out pop in the early 80s (thinking Strawberry Switchblade, Altered Images) now seems unarguably indiepop - this is probably how the likes of the Pipettes get included in a genre that once was determinedly sentimental and sensitive.

Indiepop has changed with some of those changes in other genres - I'd argue that the likes of C86, twee and perhaps shoegaze to some degree all get lumped together in the genre now, whereas once they wouldn't.

I was trying to make a point here...what was it again? hmm...no, its gone..

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Post by Anonymous » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:01 pm

I've been ruminating sagely upon this question for some weeks and I would suggest that the 'often but not always' guiding sliding rule applies here

coming at this from a mid-eighties perspective I would venture that 'indie pop' is

often but not always

- primarily guitar based
- drawing influences from post-punk bands such as orange juice, josef k, the fire engines, the television personalities, the swell maps, the marine girls and young marble giants
- drawing influnces from punk bands such as the ramones, the modern lovers, blondie, the buzzcocks and the subway sect
- drawing influences from sixties bands such as the byrds, the velvet underground, love, the monkees and the seeds (or any number of bands collated on the 'nuggets' compilations) and looking to the likes of phil spector, motown, brian wilson, bubblegum pop for inspiration

alan mcgee's creation records blueprint was 'psychedelic punk pop', so a band like primal scream at the time of their frst two creation singles could be described as sounding not unlike the byrds meet the subway sect

razorcuts who joined creation later on sounded on their early records like the buzzcocks with 12-string guitars

it was an attempt to fuse the wide-eyed melodicism of psychedelic/sixties pop or the sixties girl bands fused with the edge and abrasiveness of punk

often but not always

indiepop was a means to make pop music on one's own terms without subscribing to the prevalent diktats of the corporate music business and the mainstream charts, it was an opportunity to make music that looked back to a more innocent less cynical age

often but not always

rejecting the concerns of the mainstream pop artists of the time and employing a 'punk' ethic: playing one gig was all that mattered, producing one single the sole intent, releasing 'fast product' diy tape lp's or flexi discs

some bands concerned themselves with purity and producing a classic sound, others to making a noise- any noise- as long as the chorus was half way singalongable, some just went for pure FUN!

some just wanted to sing 'la la la la' and wear hairslides and bash a tambourine or do handclaps

other bands turned the whole thing on it's head embracing RAUNCH just as others embraced the playground

some turned the guitars up louder, others dispensed with guitars altogether

for some it was political, for others it was all play

some indiepop bands weren't indiepop at all

and some bands claimed to be but never were

everyone has their own interpration, I guess, and that was mine

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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by Gordon » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:33 am

Late entry:
Isn't pop just 4 minute songs that have a verse and a chorus? I thought indiepop (as opposed to indie pop) was just spmehting that could be seen as from or descended from the C86 type genre.
Toot toot.

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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by SophieC » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:51 pm

Gordon wrote:Late entry:
Isn't pop just 4 minute songs that have a verse and a chorus? I thought indiepop (as opposed to indie pop) was just spmehting that could be seen as from or descended from the C86 type genre.
fing is yer C86 genre classification doo-dah only came into being retrospectively. C86, the tape that came with the NME, is about half noisy gubbins. it's not just what you'd think of as yer modern fey indiepop today. and even the poppier stuff on it has a definite punk influence to it.

Hey everyone. ages ago i said i'd do a best indiepop in the world .... ever part 1 album for the deirdres. they don't know what it is and get all confused when people like us call them it. they think tullycraft is a detergent. i guess they're accidental indiepop WHICH IS ALRIGHT WITH ME *ruffles their hair*

so let's all work together to do them some lovely songs. i'll start. add one on as you go through.

1. you should all be murdered - another sunny day (best song ever)
2.
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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by a layer of chips » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:06 pm

2. The Flatmates - Shimmer.

linus

Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by linus » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:47 pm

3. The 14 Iced Bears 'Come Get Me'

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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by humblebee » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:53 pm

Do they all have to be old-sKool indiepop? Because I'd quite like it to include
4. Bearsuit, 'Hey Charlie Hey Chuck'

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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by SophieC » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:05 pm

humblebee wrote:Do they all have to be old-sKool indiepop? Because I'd quite like it to include
4. Bearsuit, 'Hey Charlie Hey Chuck'
no way. good choice bruv.

5. The Melons - From Hell to Helsinki

god i really, really love the melons.

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Re: What's Indiepop?

Post by SophieC » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:22 pm

andrew hart. do you want to do some of your lurvlee artwork for the cover of this?
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'

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