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Jangloid Mark
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Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:03 am

Not sure if this is the right place for this thread...I hope so...
This thread is for people looking for tips in HTML, and solutions for HTML problems...

I'll go first....
The following links work in IE, but, not in Firefox...and I can't for the life of me fathom why...

<div id='mainmenu' style='position:absolute;left:10px;top:10px;width: 120px;height:100px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/mainmenu.htm">
<img id='mainmenu' name='mainmenu' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/janglyclear_27631.gif' border='0' width='120' height='100'></img></a></div>

<div id='stopwar' name='stopwar' style='position:absolute;left:35px;top:180px;width :70px;height:70px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://www.stopwar.org.uk/">
<img id='stopwar' name='stopwar' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/stopwar.jpg' border='0' width='70' height='70'></img></a></div>

<div id='uaf' name='uaf' style='position:absolute;left:35px;top:270px;width :70px;height:70px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://www.uaf.org.uk/">
<img id='uaf' name='uaf' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/uaf.jpg' border='0' width='70' height='70'></img></a></div>

<div id='antiwar' name='antiwar' style='position:absolute;left:35px;top:360px;width :70px;height:70px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://antiwar.com/">
<img id='antiwar' name='antiwar' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/antiwar.jpg' border='0' width='70' height='70'></img></a></div>

<div id='no2id' name='no2id' style='position:absolute;left:35px;top:450px;width :70px;height:70px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://www.no2id.net/">
<img id='no2id' name='no2id' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/no2id.jpg' border='0' width='70' height='70'></img></a></div>
</body>
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Martijn
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Martijn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:14 am

Jangloid Mark wrote:Not sure if this is the right place for this thread...I hope so...
There's a anorak computing subforum, which might be a more appropriate place to discuss our HTML problems. :)
Jangloid Mark wrote:The following links work in IE, but, not in Firefox...and I can't for the life of me fathom why...

Code: Select all

<div id='mainmenu' style='position:absolute;left:10px;top:10px;width: 120px;height:100px;' align='left' valign='top'>
<a href="http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/mainmenu.htm">
<img id='mainmenu' name='mainmenu' src='http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/janglyclear_27631.gif' border='0' width='120' height='100'></img></a></div>
Hmm. Not sure what's wrong here really. The use of align and valign as attributes to a div-tag is deprecated (you're supposed to get the same effect using style sheets in that) and I don't see what it does here anyway; but I don't think that's the problem here. Could you elaborate a bit on the "does not work" bit. Do you see an image in the first place? Is it positioned properly? Is there a link? Does it not go to the right location?

Oh, I now see you have two id-attributes mainmenu. An id should be unique. Could that be the problem perhaps? In general, it's hard to predict how different browsers react to invalid HTML, so it's best to make sure it's valid in the first place. The HTML validator is a good place to start.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:39 pm

Martijn wrote:Could you elaborate a bit on the "does not work" bit. Do you see an image in the first place? Is it positioned properly? Is there a link? Does it not go to the right location?
Thanks for that :) I'll try the validator.

In answer to your question, in IE, it works. In Firefox, the thumbnails appear, and are the right size, and in the right place, but, they don't act as links...
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Martijn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:46 pm

Hmm. Weird. If I copy the HTML you posted above and prepend the code with

Code: Select all

<html>
<body>
then it works fine with me in FF3/Linux. Five thumbnails, the first one slightly bigger then the other four, and all work as links. Could it be that another part of the document (CSS/JavaScript perhaps) is getting in the way here?

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:36 pm

Martijn wrote:Hmm. Weird. If I copy the HTML you posted above and prepend the code with

Code: Select all

<html>
<body>
then it works fine with me in FF3/Linux. Five thumbnails, the first one slightly bigger then the other four, and all work as links. Could it be that another part of the document (CSS/JavaScript perhaps) is getting in the way here?
It's looking that way.

The HTML compiler linked to above kept throwing out messages that elements are already defined. This is actually true....they are defined thus...
#uaf {
position:fixed;
left:35px;
top:270px;
width:70px;
height:70px;
}
I'm sure I've done something very basic wrong here....but, just can't see what it is...
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by tonieee » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Jangloid Mark wrote:The HTML compiler linked to above kept throwing out messages that elements are already defined.
Is this because of the repeated id's? You should give them different id's and if you need to reference them in the same rule in CSS use classes instead.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by indiehorse » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:04 pm

It would have been easier if you'd posted the whole code, or a link to the page. Anyway, having found the page, the problem is that your content div is floating infront of the image/links. Take the z-index off it.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:17 pm

indiehorse wrote:It would have been easier if you'd posted the whole code, or a link to the page. Anyway, having found the page, the problem is that your content div is floating infront of the image/links. Take the z-index off it.
Thank you :)

I'll try that. I'm impressed that you managed to find the page without a link...
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by a layer of chips » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:20 pm

An unborn turkey knows more html than me, but I still managed to find it.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:32 pm

indiehorse wrote:It would have been easier if you'd posted the whole code, or a link to the page. Anyway, having found the page, the problem is that your content div is floating infront of the image/links. Take the z-index off it.
Yep...that fixed it :)

There is one problem left...once I get that sorted, I can start fleshing out the pages...
The problem, on the same page (http://maclark.co.uk/janglymark/jm2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is that in IE, it won't scroll down. It works fine in Firefox. I was hoping that fixing the first problem would resolve the second, but, apparantly not....
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by tonieee » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:34 pm

Remove this:
html {
overflow-y:hidden;
}
body {
overflow-y:auto;
}

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:26 pm

Thanks again :)
That's half fixed the problem.
The page now scrolls down, but, the background and the links scroll down with it...

I've also just realised that somehow you can't find the page through Google...do you have to do something to get Google to see your page?
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by tonieee » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:14 am

Jangloid Mark wrote:Thanks again :)
That's half fixed the problem.
The page now scrolls down, but, the background and the links scroll down with it...
Put back in the lines I told you to delete and add the following just after them:
#content {
position:fixed;
}
I'd try it on other browser too (including IE 7/8). I'm not a great expert on CSS but you seem to have stuff in there that is a bit tricky.
Jangloid Mark wrote:I've also just realised that somehow you can't find the page through Google...do you have to do something to get Google to see your page?
I don't know a lot about this but I'd say get other sites link to you (but not in a spammy way or you'll get removed) and wait a few days. Maybe now there is a link from here it might appear.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:10 am

. (double post)
Last edited by Jangloid Mark on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Jangloid Mark » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:11 am

Thanks again, Toniee :) Again, didn't quite work, but, with the things you've shown me, I've got a few things to tinker round with/get my teeth into. I'm much closer now :)
tonieee wrote:I'm not a great expert on CSS but you seem to have stuff in there that is a bit tricky.
Hahahaha....yeah, I suppose so. I've had to re-code from scratch, and am learning HTML as I go along. Sometimes, I wonder why I ever took this on, but, I'll be pleased when it's done :)

The first time, I didn't realise that different size screens would display my pages differently. What I really wanted was to code it so that it would look the same in any size screen...if you're watching tv on a 12 inch portable, you see the same picture as a massive screen, only smaller....that's what I wanted....but, it got a bit too complex, so, I settled for a background that would stretch to the size of the screen, and everything else layered on top.
tonieee wrote:II'd try it on other browser too (including IE 7/8).
That's a little difficult, as I'm running Windows98SE. Money doesn't allow me to upgrade quite yet...I'll see if I can get on someone else's PC. Word is that the problems I'm having only affect IE6. I certainly hope so.
tonieee wrote:I don't know a lot about this but I'd say get other sites link to you (but not in a spammy way or you'll get removed) and wait a few days. Maybe now there is a link from here it might appear.
Yeah...I've read that. I also found a 'submit your website to Google' page late last night :) Hopefully, they'll pick it up. It said that my page would be added to the list of sites to spider, but, there is no guarantee that they would. I'm hoping that they put that in there for really dodgy sites, and that mine will get spidered.

I checked just now, and nothing yet. I can be really impatient sometimes. If anyone wants to link to me (please do), let me know & I will put a link back in the relevant place as I flesh out the site....with only 1 bug left to zap, I'm hoping to do this in the next few weeks.
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Re: Help with HTML

Post by soft revolution » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:22 am

Jangloid Mark wrote:Yeah...I've read that. I also found a 'submit your website to Google' page late last night :) Hopefully, they'll pick it up. It said that my page would be added to the list of sites to spider, but, there is no guarantee that they would. I'm hoping that they put that in there for really dodgy sites, and that mine will get spidered.
There's some advice from google here too - http://www.google.com/support/webmaster ... swer=35769" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And by me, I mean, Flexo.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by humblebee » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:48 am

Jangloid Mark wrote:The first time, I didn't realise that different size screens would display my pages differently. What I really wanted was to code it so that it would look the same in any size screen...if you're watching tv on a 12 inch portable, you see the same picture as a massive screen, only smaller....that's what I wanted....but, it got a bit too complex, so, I settled for a background that would stretch to the size of the screen, and everything else layered on top.
When I learnt HMTL all the guide books and stuff that I read said you should just accept that your design will be rendered in the same way on any two different monitors (it's not just the screen resolution and the browser: some people might not have the browser window maximised and you can never legislate for that) so you shouldn't try and force it; you should just embrace the mutability of it or something. That was nearly ten years ago though, so things might be different now...

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Martijn » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:18 pm

You obviously can't do much about bigger screens, other than designing your page to be slightly less than 800 pixels wide and just accept that bigger screens have bigger white space on the sides. Most blogs do that; for one thing, reading long lines of text isn't a very comfortable thing to do. (Come to think of it, Anorak could do with a fixed width too.) But by making sure your HTML and CSS are valid and tidy, you probably won't see too many differences between browsers.

Anyway, well done for trying to learn HTML. It's dead simple really and it's a shame that so few people can be bothered to these days. Back in the old days, grandpa says, everyone just did that.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by humblebee » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:26 pm

Martijn wrote:Anyway, well done for trying to learn HTML. It's dead simple really and it's a shame that so few people can be bothered to these days. Back in the old days, grandpa says, everyone just did that.
The thing is, though, you learn something these days and it's obsolete five minutes later. All the HTML I know, right, well, the style guides just laugh at me and tell me all that stuff is 'deprecated' these days, old man, and I should use CSS instead if I don't want all the cool kids to throw chips at me when I go to the post office to pick up my pension.

It's all very well if you're a professional webbist, but I suspect most people who learned HTML in their spare time in the late 90s, and found it quite simple and rewarding like I did, are just gonna think it's not worth their while trying to keep up, because their new knowledge will be made obsolete again very soon by the new version of SXSCDHTML 12.9.

And even if you *have* got the time, all these new stuffs are much harder for yer average josephine to get their head round than lovely old simple basic HMTL was.

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Re: Help with HTML

Post by Martijn » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:47 pm

You are making it sound a lot worse than it is! If you wrote a web page in 1995 and you wrote it in correct HTML, it is very very likely it will still look the same. HTML is very backwards-compatible. The only big change that has occured since the early days is CSS. Which is worth learning anyway, for it lets you seperate content and design completely (this site is the perfect example of that). HTML5 will change things a bit too, but again, it won't mean a website written in 2008 will suddenly look bad.

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