you and your mp3 player

PCs, laptops, macs, mp3 players, consoles, peripherals
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tonieee
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by tonieee » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:08

Martijn wrote:As for computer programs being buggy, I think the criticism a bit unfair. Many bugs are security bugs and these are only considered bugs because the nature of the internet makes it quite easy to try and break into many computers at once. If it were possibly for crooks to remotely try and break into hundreds of cars at once, then cars would turn out to be very buggy too.
I really strongly disagree with that - any computer program that allows someone to break into a computer via the internet definitely has a bug. Security should be the most important concern of any program that connects to the internet.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Martijn » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:18

I definitely don't disagree with that (at all) and a security bug definitely is a bug, and a very important one too. What I meant to say is that it is unfair to say that we wouldn't accept it in other products, but we would in computers. I can't think of any non-computery product where a comparably effort is done to break them. Perhaps a better metaphor would be car safety: this is the most important part of making a car (it should be in any case), but all cars would prove to be extremely unsafe if there were people out there who would deliberately try and crash into your car.

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tonieee
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by tonieee » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:22

Martijn wrote:
tonieee wrote:There is a filesystem for Linux that allows you to store all your music as lossless files (FLAC I think) and then you can mount it in a certain way and all the files magically appear as mp3 and are converted on the fly when you listen to them or copy them onto your mp3 player. It sounds like a fantastic idea and something I've considered looking into but then I'd need to buy a hard drive about 10 times as big to store them all. Also I imagine it would be quite slow.
Hee, that sounds like a fantastic idea, even though I can't see a way I would make use of it personally.
I think the main use for it is so you can keep the files in a lossless format and be able to copy them onto an mp3 player without manually converting them.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Martijn » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:25

Yeah, I suppose it should be possibly to do something similar when you put a CD in the CD-drive: to mount the drive as a disk containing a small number of mp3s. But, to be honest, opening k3b clicking rip and storing them somewhere in the /tmp drive is not exactly the biggest problem in the world. Not even in the world of computers.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by tonieee » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:38

Martijn wrote:I definitely don't disagree with that (at all) and a security bug definitely is a bug, and a very important one too. What I meant to say is that it is unfair to say that we wouldn't accept it in other products, but we would in computers. I can't think of any non-computery product where a comparably effort is done to break them. Perhaps a better metaphor would be car safety: this is the most important part of making a car (it should be in any case), but all cars would prove to be extremely unsafe if there were people out there who would deliberately try and crash into your car.
I agree that it is almost impossible to guarantee that any program would be free of security bugs. Maybe my use of the IE example was a bit unfair but I wanted to highlight that there are negative consequences of releasing buggy programs and that was quite a severe, topical example. Your car analogy is not accurate because if people crashing into your car was a common danger then car manufacturers should be producing anti-crashing features. What Uncle Ants was talking about, I think, was more like selling you a car that couldn't turn right and then posting everyone a new steering wheel a couple weeks later to fix the problem.

Anyway, I don't know what I'm doing here - I don't even have a mp3 player!

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by tonieee » Tue Dec 16, 2008 20:43

Martijn wrote:Yeah, I suppose it should be possibly to do something similar when you put a CD in the CD-drive: to mount the drive as a disk containing a small number of mp3s. But, to be honest, opening k3b clicking rip and storing them somewhere in the /tmp drive is not exactly the biggest problem in the world. Not even in the world of computers.
It's not really for cd drives though - ripping either to lossless or mp3 is about the same effort. Once you've got your files on your hard drive as lossless then you'd have to first convert them to mp3 before copying them, whereas with this you'd be able to just copy them across and have it happen automatically. If I had an mp3 player and more disc space I might consider using it, if it wasn't too slow.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Martijn » Wed Dec 17, 2008 09:36

I was mostly thinking what use it would have for me, especially since I don't care very much about audio quality and mp3 is generally good enough.
tonieee wrote:Anyway, I don't know what I'm doing here - I don't even have a mp3 player!
:) I do have one, on my phone, which reduces the number of devices I carry with me when I'm travelling. The only bad side to it is that sometimes the headphones get unplugged and it starts playing music through its speakers. The last time that happened was on Monday, when I was listening to a very Christmas-y bit of the Hey Hey Honeypopcast and suddenly found the whole train compartment staring at me.

As for buggy computer programs, they'd better keep making it, for indirectly I make my money off them.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 09:43

tonieee wrote:
Martijn wrote:I definitely don't disagree with that (at all) and a security bug definitely is a bug, and a very important one too. What I meant to say is that it is unfair to say that we wouldn't accept it in other products, but we would in computers. I can't think of any non-computery product where a comparably effort is done to break them. Perhaps a better metaphor would be car safety: this is the most important part of making a car (it should be in any case), but all cars would prove to be extremely unsafe if there were people out there who would deliberately try and crash into your car.
I agree that it is almost impossible to guarantee that any program would be free of security bugs. Maybe my use of the IE example was a bit unfair but I wanted to highlight that there are negative consequences of releasing buggy programs and that was quite a severe, topical example. Your car analogy is not accurate because if people crashing into your car was a common danger then car manufacturers should be producing anti-crashing features. What Uncle Ants was talking about, I think, was more like selling you a car that couldn't turn right and then posting everyone a new steering wheel a couple weeks later to fix the problem.

Anyway, I don't know what I'm doing here - I don't even have a mp3 player!
More irony: a) iTunes is a free product b) it doesn't have any security bugs as far as I know c) these analogies are all a bit rubbish because you don't know about security bugs until they are exploited. It's not as if (generally) someone has forgotten to lock the front door, it's about exciting things like crashing the program by bringing down it's memory and sticking instructions in it...

The product cycles now (including alpha and beta testing phases which is where they usually remember to stick on that working steering wheel) have had big benefits for bleeding edge users, and the customer bases as a whole (and I say customers loosely when for the most part we're talking about open source or free closed source software). Imagine if the internet existed but for whatever reason updates couldn't be pushed out over the internet. Security issues would be guaranteed to arise (that's the nature of being connected to the internet), but there'd be no way of patching, just as there is no way of really foreseeing new security issues. If anything, though, the nature of distribution, and bug-filing means that those issues will be dealt with much quicker than previously (the same day, often).

To be honest I've forgotten what we're talking about...
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Wheatabeat » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17

Christ on skates! And all this started because there is a zillion ways to display Paul McCartney on iTunes. You nerds. :-P

Right, back on track then... I'm not too keen on the newer iTunes, which displays artwork a bit differently. I liked my artwork to be in the bottom left corner all the time. Now they've taken that option away.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:53

Gordon wrote: To be honest I've forgotten what we're talking about...
We were talking about iTunes being too dumb to know that Bob Dylan and Dylan, Bob are the same person, why it's not smart enough to let me do for my 8Gb Touch, what I COULD do if I had an 8Gb shuffle, why it won't talk to my Mac but will talk to my PC, and how shonky it is if you happen to like classical music. Oh and how it seems to have lost a bug chunk of Humblebees music collection - did the same thing to Mimpkin's last time she updated it as welll by the way - nothing in the folders, nothing in the bin - just pfooot - into the ether.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by tonieee » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:00

Wheatabeat wrote:You nerds
Guilty as charged.
Wheatabeat wrote:Right, back on track then...
Yes. I'll stop boring you all with computer talk now. I think the guy that send Mark into the future in Do The Indie Kid could have been written about me!
Martijn wrote:I do have one, on my phone
I've recently got a phone that I've started using as an mp3 player too. I've been wanting an mp3 player for ages but been stuck by indecision of which one to buy (and also lack of money). I think I'd need to be able to try one for about a week before buying a new one.

I bought the phone I got because Jo had the same one and I'd had a play on it and thought that the mp3 player seemed quite good so decided to get the same one but it has all the following problems which only turned up after extended use:

- to play a song you have to load it into a play list, there are only 4 play lists with a maximum of 30 songs on each so I'm constantly adding and removing songs to/from the play list.
- doesn't read tags - only displays the filename.
- if a filename is over 50 characters then it deletes it instead of playing it! Really bizzare feature that - it doesn't just refuse to play but actually deletes it from the memory card!
- skipping backwards and forwards through a track is done at a tenth of the length of the track at a time which is fine for a song but if you're listening to an audio play/radio show/podcast/etc which is an hour long then you can only skip back/forward 6 minutes at a time. Even worse when it's 3 hours long!
- if you pause it then after about a minute it turns off the player meaning you have to start the track from the beginning again.
- you can't do anything else while the player is on - e.g. send/read text messages, check the calendar, look at the time (I use my phone as a watch). It also has an FM radio player in it and this will keep playing while you do other things but the mp3 player doesn't.

Also one of my main requirements for an mp3 player is that it behaves as a usb drive so you don't have to install extra drivers for it which I believe rules out ipod and creative.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Martijn » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:32

I have one of the simplest Sony Ericsson phones and it has none of the problems you mentioned. It also ignores any directory structure on the memory card but lets you browse by artist or by album instead; this is dead useful for compilations, which can be played as a whole, while the individual tracks (if tagged properly) still appear in the artist's view.

My biggest issue with the thing is that there is no 'add to queue' function, so you either have to add all the songs you want to listen to to a playlist, of have to wait until you're finished with the song(s) you're listening to before starting the next song(s).

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:39

Wheatabeat wrote: Now they've taken that option away.
No, they haven't. You can make it look exactly as it used to.

To bring album art up in the bottom left, click the little button in the bottom left that ooks like a square with a pyramid in it (4th from the left). There's probably a keyboard shortcut, but I don't know what it is.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:49

Uncle Ants wrote:
Gordon wrote: To be honest I've forgotten what we're talking about...
We were talking about iTunes being too dumb to know that Bob Dylan and Dylan, Bob are the same person
I'd rather the computer did what I told it to, rather than make educated guesses. Still I guess it could be an option.
Uncle Ants wrote:why it's not smart enough to let me do for my 8Gb Touch, what I COULD do if I had an 8Gb shuffle
I'm guessing it's to do with the fact that this has the potential to take hours on a device bigger than 1gb which would tend to piss people off. As I said earlier. costs/benefits between tiny percentage of people who would use the feature, and large percentage of people who would use it to break their computer. But then that makes me sound like an Apple apologist (which I'm not...)
Uncle Ants wrote:why it won't talk to my Mac but will talk to my PC
Don't know what this means.
Uncle Ants wrote:and how shonky it is if you happen to like classical music.
Probably guilty as charged. Is this something other programmes/players do better? Do they use the metadata within the mp3 files, or their own arbitrary databases? It seems like the 'grouping', 'composer', and 'album artist' fields could come in handy, though.
Uncle Ants wrote:Oh and how it seems to have lost a bug chunk of Humblebees music collection - did the same thing to Mimpkin's last time she updated it as welll by the way - nothing in the folders, nothing in the bin - just pfooot - into the ether.
Don't know about this. It surprises me, a bit and without looking at those computers I couldn't say for sure if the files weren't still there/recoverable. Apple do provide an easy back-up service in os x, though.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:52

You worship at the Altar of Jobs, don't you Gordon :) I can see the symptoms.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Wheatabeat » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:06

Gordon wrote: No, they haven't. You can make it look exactly as it used to.

To bring album art up in the bottom left, click the little button in the bottom left that ooks like a square with a pyramid in it (4th from the left). There's probably a keyboard shortcut, but I don't know what it is.
Oh you star! I was looking for that for ages. Thanks Gordon!
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Wed Dec 17, 2008 13:07

Uncle Ants wrote:You worship at the Altar of Jobs, don't you Gordon :) I can see the symptoms.
Not so much. The iPod Classic has some pretty dumb points. It's amusing to see people defending the fact that you can;t reduce the volume to zero for instance...

Apples tend to be nicer, though, yes...
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by crystalball » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:04

I was talking to humblebee and Jono Volpone about Ipods yesterday and remembered about that small utility that I use quite a lot called Yamipod, which is useful if you want to copy songs from your Ipod onto a computer. It's handy cos you can install it on your Ipod and run it from there.*

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Jono Volpone » Sun Dec 21, 2008 20:57

No, that's a very handy post, as I'd already forgotten about that (in all my excitement over watching train Simulator videos on Youtube!).

Ta:-)
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Sootyzilla » Sun Dec 21, 2008 22:21

you can watch real train videos on youtube, why bother with the simulator?

another thread diverted into train chat!
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