you and your mp3 player

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Gordon
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:37 pm

humblebee wrote:Itunes has actually fucking *deleted* a load of music. As well as making a total bastard dog's breakfast of cataloguing my music folder. The stuff that I hadn't got round to tagging, rather than just leave it alone, it's fucking deleted the lot.
It shouldn't have. And if it has, they should be in your recycle bin.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:39 pm

humblebee wrote:Itunes has actually fucking *deleted* a load of music. As well as making a total bastard dog's breakfast of cataloguing my music folder. The stuff that I hadn't got round to tagging, rather than just leave it alone, it's fucking deleted the lot.
But you had a backup of course ....

I've gone through a course of denial and haughty indifference, then reluctant interest, then acceptance, then frustration, and now finally rejection in my relationship with iPoddery and iTunes. I've come to the conclusion that all claims of ease of use, superiority, convenience and modernity are a bunch of big fat fibs designed to make you buy a new shiny box approximately once a year. They don't sound as good, are a total pain in the arse to manage, and unless you have a backup regime more approriate for a financial institution are completely insecure ... and anyway my iPod broke at the weekend after all of 4 months use ... my old Sharp Minidisc player (10 years old and counting) still works.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:40 pm

Jangloid Mark wrote:Call me a luddite, but, that's partly why I don't use my Ipod that much....that and the fact that all the files are in ATRAC....which makes for a bastard when trying to get files between devices...

Maybe, I'm old fashioned, but, I actually much prefer my discman (minidisc), all you need to do, is take one disc out, and put another one in...simple.
iPods don't use ATRAC (or is that what you meant? No one but Sony uses ATRAC).

Ironically enough minidiscs do use ATRAC. Some would say carrying one device that has all your music on it is simpler than carrying lots of breakable magnetic minidisks, though.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:42 pm

Gordon wrote:Ironically enough minidiscs do use ATRAC. Some would say carrying one device that has all your music on it is simpler than carrying lots of breakable magnetic minidisks, though.
Others mght call it putting all your eggs in one basket.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:43 pm

Uncle Ants wrote:
humblebee wrote:Itunes has actually fucking *deleted* a load of music. As well as making a total bastard dog's breakfast of cataloguing my music folder. The stuff that I hadn't got round to tagging, rather than just leave it alone, it's fucking deleted the lot.
But you had a backup of course ....

I've gone through a course of denial and haughty indifference, then reluctant interest, then acceptance, then frustration, and now finally rejection in my relationship with iPoddery and iTunes. I've come to the conclusion that all claims of ease of use, superiority, convenience and modernity are a bunch of big fat fibs designed to make you buy a new shiny box approximately once a year. They don't sound as good, are a total pain in the arse to manage, and unless you have a backup regime more approriate for a financial institution are completely insecure ... and anyway my iPod broke at the weekend after all of 4 months use ... my old Sharp Minidisc player (10 years old and counting) still works.
Sound comes down to compression rates and headphones. MDs will be compressed (probably) more than most modern MP3s. BOth my MD players broke within about 6 months...

I am slightly ambivalent about the iPod Classic, though but the iPod Touch is wonderful. They both have slight problems with the proccessor slowing down when the screen sleeps making large (30 min or more) and lossless files occasionally stutter. Hopefully a firmware fix will sort this out. The sound decoder I think is recognised as being comparatively good.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:44 pm

Uncle Ants wrote:
Gordon wrote:Ironically enough minidiscs do use ATRAC. Some would say carrying one device that has all your music on it is simpler than carrying lots of breakable magnetic minidisks, though.
Others mght call it putting all your eggs in one basket.
Not if the music is on your computer, and backed up (more than) daily (thank you OS X).
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:05 pm

Gordon wrote:
Sound comes down to compression rates and headphones. MDs will be compressed (probably) more than most modern MP3s. BOth my MD players broke within about 6 months...

I am slightly ambivalent about the iPod Classic, though but the iPod Touch is wonderful. They both have slight problems with the proccessor slowing down when the screen sleeps making large (30 min or more) and lossless files occasionally stutter. Hopefully a firmware fix will sort this out. The sound decoder I think is recognised as being comparatively good.
Atrac is roughly equivalent to 256kbs MP3 ... but it's a better codec and does actually sound better than MP3. To be honest I am actually a bit of a luddite and have only just started messing with iPoddery in the last few months, but I have been really quite surprised at how much WORK is involved with this iPod game for something that is supposed to be convenient. (I got as far as ripping up to C in the CD collection before nearly dieing of boredom and the quality of the metadata in the tags is terrible - it's just a data management nightmare)

I really like my Touch (or did until the screen got some sort of computer plague), but never used it for mobile music much - Web browsing whilst lieing on the sofa, as a mini synth and plugged into a dock as a last.fm client is what it's mostly used for. You can't fit much on it and the battery life sucks.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by islandhopper » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:54 pm

I love my itunes and ipod combo. The syncing works beautifully and there's not really any work for me to do. It does it all itself.

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:44 pm

islandhopper wrote:I love my itunes and ipod combo. The syncing works beautifully and there's not really any work for me to do. It does it all itself.
I guess it depends on whether having Bob Dylan listed as two separate artists "Bob Dylan" and "Dylan, Bob" or the Beatles as three "Beatles", "The Beatles" and "Beatles, The" bothers you or not. Or that I want them as lossless on my main computer (to listen to through the stereo) but compressed on the iPod and it won't do it. Or that I can't use the thing with two different computers, the one at work and the one at home. Or that despite our Mac at home being only about three years old, the Operating System apparently isn't up to date enough to talk to my iPod, I can update it but it'll cost me 80 odd quid ... I could whinge on some more ... but I know you don't want me to :)
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by darvé » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:48 pm

Uncle Ants wrote: I guess it depends on whether having Bob Dylan listed as two separate artists "Bob Dylan" and "Dylan, Bob" or the Beatles as three "Beatles", "The Beatles" and "Beatles, The" bothers you or not.
I understand that this is just an example to illustrate the argument against, but that really only takes a few seconds to rectify and once it's done it's done.

I'm with Chris, my itunes/ipod runs perfectly well, with minimal input needed apart from the obvious adding files and making sure they're all ok.
Last edited by darvé on Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:58 pm

davo wrote:
Uncle Ants wrote: I understand that this is just an example to illustrate the argument against, but that really only takes a few seconds to rectify and once it's done once!
Having to go in and manually edit the metadata for every CD you burn is a pain in the arse whichever way you slice it - when you have about 1000 or more of them to do, you can feel your hair starting to drop out. That was a simple example - you should see what it does to less obvious stuff like the "songwriter tag" - using the Beatles as another example - I discovered there are 17 ways of listing Lennon/McCartney. It's probably best not to care and just leave it all in the mess that gets served up to you, but I can't help it, it makes me a feel a bit queasy knowing there's shedloads of wrong data in there.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by darvé » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:02 pm

I always clear all the data except artist, album, song and artwork. I don't really need to know anything other than that whilst i listen to an MP3, but then, i guess if you are keeping all that in then it can get messy.

This makes me glad i'm not a Beatles fan.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:27 pm

Uncle Ants wrote:
davo wrote:
Having to go in and manually edit the metadata for every CD you burn is a pain in the arse whichever way you slice it - when you have about 1000 or more of them to do, you can feel your hair starting to drop out. That was a simple example - you should see what it does to less obvious stuff like the "songwriter tag" - using the Beatles as another example - I discovered there are 17 ways of listing Lennon/McCartney. It's probably best not to care and just leave it all in the mess that gets served up to you, but I can't help it, it makes me a feel a bit queasy knowing there's shedloads of wrong data in there.
1. select artists
2. On a mac, press cmd-a and then cmd-i to change multiple tracks at once (on a PC ctrl-a/ctrl-i)

Re the different bitrates, there's a couple possibilities. You could do some faffing around with telling your ipod to only sync checked songs, or specific MP3 playlists, or as you were annoyed about problems using multiple computers, set your iPod to manual update.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:35 pm

Gordon wrote: 1. select artists
2. On a mac, press cmd-a and then cmd-i to change multiple tracks at once (on a PC ctrl-a/ctrl-i)

Re the different bitrates, there's a couple possibilities. You could do some faffing around with telling your ipod to only sync checked songs, or specific MP3 playlists, or as you were annoyed about problems using multiple computers, set your iPod to manual update.
1 & 2 - sorry - it's meant to be convenient - I shouldn't have to

I could do some faffing around - well quite.

Now bear with me I'm just enjoying having a moan, but why is it that whenever one has a problem with computer stuff that should just work, a lot of people who are fans of this stuff say things like ... oh that's easy, you just highlight, right click press Ctrl alt return, hold down the touch pad with your left elbow, scroll down the menu and poke it with your nose?
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by a layer of chips » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:39 pm

If it was good enough for Joey Deacon...

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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Wheatabeat » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:44 pm

Uncle Ants wrote: Having to go in and manually edit the metadata for every CD you burn is a pain in the arse whichever way you slice it - when you have about 1000 or more of them to do, you can feel your hair starting to drop out. That was a simple example - you should see what it does to less obvious stuff like the "songwriter tag" - using the Beatles as another example - I discovered there are 17 ways of listing Lennon/McCartney. It's probably best not to care and just leave it all in the mess that gets served up to you, but I can't help it, it makes me a feel a bit queasy knowing there's shedloads of wrong data in there.
Not meaning to be funny or anything, but it probably says more about you being a fusspot than it does Apple not catering enough for fusspots.

Personally I'm a bit fussy when it comes to tagging my shit. But the only things I am bothered about is Artist/Album/Song/Year being correctly formatted in title case and correctly spelled, as well as having the album artwork. Anything other than that I couldn't really care less about.

This thread lately has made me realise that I'm a bit odd and do all my burning from CD's in a completely different way to everyone else seemingly. For example I choose where to have all my MP3's stored and just drag across into iTunes the stuff I want to go onto my iPod.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by darvé » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:48 pm

Wheatabeat wrote: This thread lately has made me realise that I'm a bit odd and do all my burning from CD's in a completely different way to everyone else seemingly. For example I choose where to have all my MP3's stored and just drag across into iTunes the stuff I want to go onto my iPod.
Yeah, thats what i do too, the only concession to fussiness i've got is seperate folders for Albums/singles/compilations/misc. within the itunes folder, but i don't see the point of importing something into itunes from the folder it won't end up in.
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:55 pm

Wheatabeat wrote:Not meaning to be funny or anything, but it probably says more about you being a fusspot than it does Apple not catering enough for fusspots.
Hey, they are only a giant multinational corporation with thousands of employees - I suppose it'd be too much to expect them to get things right eh? ;)
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:56 pm

davo wrote: Yeah, thats what i do too, the only concession to fussiness i've got is seperate folders for Albums/singles/compilations/misc. within the itunes folder, but i don't see the point of importing something into itunes from the folder it won't end up in.
You're the kind of people who used to leave your records all over the floor, aren't you :)
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Re: you and your mp3 player

Post by Gordon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:10 pm

Uncle Ants wrote:
Gordon wrote: 1. select artists
2. On a mac, press cmd-a and then cmd-i to change multiple tracks at once (on a PC ctrl-a/ctrl-i)

Re the different bitrates, there's a couple possibilities. You could do some faffing around with telling your ipod to only sync checked songs, or specific MP3 playlists, or as you were annoyed about problems using multiple computers, set your iPod to manual update.
1 & 2 - sorry - it's meant to be convenient - I shouldn't have to
I don't really understand. The CDDb is just done by users, if they happen to enter in Dylan, Bob and Bob Dylan on different CDs, it's not really Apple's responsibility to tidy it up. How should Apple know which one you prefer? I'd say iTunes caters very well out-of-the-virtual-box for about 99.99% (or more) of all users needs. We're probably all by definition a bit fussy, but I don't see how selecting all the Music that's down as Dylan, Bob and Zimmerman, Rob and block-changing it to 'Bob Dylan will take more than about 5 seconds. There's also TuneUp http://www.tuneupmedia.com/ which automatically retags and album-arts music if you're that way inclined.

If you want different encodings of the same music on your computer, and your iPod you're either talking about having the program sync and live-re-encode your music every time you sync (seems wasteful to me) or basically doing a manual-update (which you can do). Actually I think you can have it do something like what you want for the iPod shuffle, but as it's a smaller capacity the cost/benefits ratio is probably better. I think it may have a different sync-style as well. What I imagine Apple would foresee is that 0.000001% of their userbase would find this useful, the rest would somehow use it to break their computers and there are perfectly decent otherways of doing it... there is a valid complaint in that the iPod being relatively well-locked-down to iTunes makes it difficult for niche programs that might do what you want to arise, though...
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