Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

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frogblast
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:09 pm

yeah, he was one of the main posters on the old lenco lovers site (and i assume he's now a member of lenco heaven). there were a lot of very nice people on that site.
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Uncle Ants
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Warning - Here be Record Player Nerdery

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:56 am

It arrived Friday, spent Saturday, stripping it down, cleaning, re lubricating, rebuilding and fitting a new arm. Sunday I listened to a lot of tunes very loudly. It's a very good deck:

Image

This is what came out ... I suspect Dynatron gear must have been quite pricey at the time as it's very well put together - it also dates it to March 1972 - so 37 years old:

Image

and this is what was left:

Image

The new arm:

Image

I'm very pleased with it. It sounds very good.

Image


I'll be needing a new plinth, but it sounds surpringly good in this one.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:16 pm

how did you deal with the VTA on that pro-ject arm? just several thick mats on the plater? any recommendations on sources for decent, thick rubber mats? i've still got the original lenco one on mine with a stack of glued together old record underneath. which is hardly ideal, and a bit ugly. i've also had to put a spacer above the cartridge.

(ahh, i see you are using the lenco arm lift - that makes it easier to get it low enough.)

fitting it onto a plinth that stops that flimsy top plate vibrating and clearing away some of the rattling bits underneath should make it sound even better
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:33 pm

frogblast wrote:how did you deal with the VTA on that pro-ject arm? just several thick mats on the plater? any recommendations on sources for decent, thick rubber mats? i've still got the original lenco one on mine with a stack of glued together old record underneath. which is hardly ideal, and a bit ugly. i've also had to put a spacer above the cartridge.

(ahh, i see you are using the lenco arm lift - that makes it easier to get it low enough.)

fitting it onto a plinth that stops that flimsy top plate vibrating and clearing away some of the rattling bits underneath should make it sound even better
Yes I just removed the base and the lift lower mechanism from the Pro-Ject arm. The pillar is just a few mm narrower than the original collar (a bit of sticky back copper tape inside the collar and a single wrap of insulating tape round the column did the trick). The geometry is spot on. It actually gets it low enough to just use the original mat, but the counterweight rides low enough at the back that when you cue up it comes a bit close to the top plate, so I dropped a 5mm achromat on top to get a bit more leeway, but lenco mats come up frequently on fleabay and I should think Thorens and Technics mats would do as well, or you can get sheets of 5mm neoprene or cork/neoprene pretty cheap.

I'll need some of the rattling bits underneath because I want to keep the speed change mech and the lift/lower. I think I may damp them though, the top plate too. Should help. I'd like to keep the top plate and don't really want to cut it.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:43 pm

to be honest, i've not really looked for mats recently. i don't really like the original lenco one - it only supports the record round the edges. i was considering just buying some rubber at one point, but i couldn't be bothered with the trouble of making a recess in the middle for the label. (most commercial mats are so bloody expensive, considering what they are)
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:48 pm

frogblast wrote:to be honest, i've not really looked for mats recently. i don't really like the original lenco one - it only supports the record round the edges. i was considering just buying some rubber at one point, but i couldn't be bothered with the trouble of making a recess in the middle for the label. (most commercial mats are so bloody expensive, considering what they are)
Use two sheets, cut to size witha craft knife. Cut a label sized hole in one and a spindle sized hole in the other, glue together.

Edit. Don't make em too thick or there won't be enough spindle left poking out to centre your record on.

Edit my edit: If you did take this approach having a lower mat made of rubberised cork and an upper one of neoprene would be a good combination. Vinyl is slightly higher density than neoprene, rubberised cork is less again and a lot less than the platter. Vibrations from the needle will sink down to the cork layer, but because there's a big difference in density between the platter and the cork, vibrations in the platter will tend not to travel the other way.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Tue May 05, 2009 10:01 am

Pages and pages of Japanese audio insanity to be found here:

http://www.gokudo.co.jp/Vanguard/index/index.htm
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by James_B » Thu May 07, 2009 7:13 pm

sorry to hijack this thread a little bit... but I'm in need of some turntable advice.

I've got a pro-ject rpm (or genie 2, they seem confused about what its actually called)... this one- http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=6551

And its never really worked very well... basically the left channel is always fine but the right channel often cuts out apart from a tinny little scratchy noise, if I give the desk its on a bump so it skips a groove that normally fixes it for a few minutes, but its not much fun. I suspect its the stylus or cartridge as my amp/ leads/ speakers all seem to be fine, does that sound about right?

I thought it might have been an issue with the amount of force on it, so I adjusted the weight on the end of the arm but that doesn't seem to solve it.

If it is a problem with the cartridge what would be a decent choice for a replacement? Its an Ortofon OM3 on there at the moment...
i just read some forum saying this is a decent one- http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page ... ct_ID/3404

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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Thu May 07, 2009 7:25 pm

have you checked the wires coming from the cartridge? and maybe the anti-skate?
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by James_B » Thu May 07, 2009 7:31 pm

the wires seem fine as far as i can tell... i don't even know what the anti-skate is, i'm pretty far from an expert when it comes to turntables...

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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Thu May 07, 2009 11:24 pm

I may be able to help. Describe how you adjusted the downforce and what did you do with the little dangly weight at the side (that's the antiskate)?
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Thu May 07, 2009 11:29 pm

(Warning - all this is just from memory, so there is a reasonably chance i've made some mistakes in my reasoning here)
Anti-skate is a mechanism that most turntables have to counteract the skating force. This force acts to pull the arm inwards towards the centre of the record. I've tried to show why this is in the diagram. All tonearms (linear trackers excluded obviously) have the cartridge offset at an angle (a) to try and minimise the distortions you get from having a pivoting arm (it's impossible for the cartridge to be perpendicular to the radius (i.e. perfectly parallel with the groove) all the way across the record and there are various different cartridge alignments that have been developed over the years to try and achieve the minimum distortion. (Arm shape, e.g. straight or S-shaped, makes no difference to this problem, but longer arms reduce it).

When the record plays there is inevitable some drag on the cartridge due to friction, as shown by the dashed arrow. Due to the offset, this force does not act along the line connecting the cartridge and the tonearm pivot (this difference is angle b). It has a component that pulls the arm in towards the middle of the turntable (the two dotted lines show the two components). There are a varietry of techniques used to counter this skating force, the most common probably being a weight on a bit of string hanging over a hook, attached to the tonearm somewhere near the counterweight (behind the pivot).

Image

Anyway, looking at the manual for your turntable, it doesn't look like it has anti-skate (which seems slightly odd - not that there aren't quite a few manufacturers who think anti-skate is unnecessary, but my pro-ject arm has anti-skate). So anti-skate is probably not the problem (a lack of it shouldn't cause one channel to totally disappear). Do you have any way of measuring the downforce? (too much is generally better than too little - if the needle is bumping about in the groove or skipping then it's much more likely to damage the record). To check the wiring you could swap the connections over where the wires plug onto the cartridge.

It's possible that the stylus is worn, but the fact that it works intermittently seems to indicate that's probably not the problem. I would also check that the turntable is on the level. The cartridge may have taken a knock and no longer be aligned, but again the fact that it works intermittently suggests that's not the problem (but check this if you have an alignment protractor thingy). Maybe it's some other problem with the stylus - knackered suspension or bent cantilever. Best thing to do is probably just take a close look at the stylus while it's playing something and see if it looks straight (this can be difficult if it's a very low-slung cartridge).

I don't know anything about those cartridges (the one you have or the one you linked to) so i can't say how good they are. I've found the Audio Technica cartridges i've had to be very good, but they don't make the 110E anymore and the 440MLa is quite a bit more expensive and only available from about 1 shop in the uk.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Thu May 07, 2009 11:40 pm

oops no your right - it's an RPM1 - it has antiskate (sort of), but it isn't adjustable, which is why it gets no mention in the manual.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by James_B » Mon May 11, 2009 6:56 pm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Precision-Mi ... 1|294%3A50

is something like that worth investing in?
does setting it up right like that make such a major difference that it could solve this problem? or is it a more subtle adjustment. i've got the little plastic protractor that came with it already, and the ones on ebay look pricey for what they are...

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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon May 11, 2009 7:57 pm

James_B wrote:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Precision-Mi ... 1|294%3A50

is something like that worth investing in?
does setting it up right like that make such a major difference that it could solve this problem? or is it a more subtle adjustment. i've got the little plastic protractor that came with it already, and the ones on ebay look pricey for what they are...
No the one you have is fine. Your problem is either that you have the downforce set too low - how did you set it? Or you have a faulty cartridge, faulty arm wiring or a faulty interconnect coming out of the deck. It's really quite hard to say. You'll get some clues if you swap the left and right outputs (does it swap channels), swap the left and right tags coming out of the back of the cartridge (white for red, blue for green - be very careful if you try this) - again does it swap channels.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by James_B » Mon May 11, 2009 9:43 pm

i have a massive post-atp hangover, so excuse any stupidity here...
the protractor i have is a balancing thing as well (a see-saw type thing), i set the down force with that. i assumed that was the problem at first, the fact that some signal (even if its quiet and distorted) comes through made me think that the stylus wasn't making proper contact... i've also moved the weight randomly about to see if i get any luck, but it made no difference. its all very frustrating.

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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Mon May 11, 2009 9:52 pm

James_B wrote:i have a massive post-atp hangover, so excuse any stupidity here...
the protractor i have is a balancing thing as well (a see-saw type thing), i set the down force with that. i assumed that was the problem at first, the fact that some signal (even if its quiet and distorted) comes through made me think that the stylus wasn't making proper contact... i've also moved the weight randomly about to see if i get any luck, but it made no difference. its all very frustrating.
In which case, Try swapping the outputs just to be sure it's not something in your amp, but to be honest it sounds as if either the cartridge or the arm wiring is faulty - it's unusual but it happens sometimes. I'd just take it back where you bought it and get a new one.
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by James_B » Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm

Richer Sounds were so great about giving me a new one, I had no receipt, I bought it online not in their store and half the supplied extras were missing, but they still just gave me the new one.
Its missing a drive belt though, so I'll have to go back to Cardiff tomorrow which is about an hours drive again, but I can't complain...

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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by Uncle Ants » Sat May 30, 2009 9:36 am

Almost there with the Lenco. Got the new plinth - now I just need to get the deck itself respsrayed.

Image
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Re: Hi-Fi Hardware - Turntables, Valves & Tapes

Post by frogblast » Sat May 30, 2009 11:43 am

very nice. how does it sound?
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