Twee As F*ck!

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linus

Twee As F*ck!

Post by linus » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:24 am

Hello all,

I'm doing a piece on Twee As F*ck for my fanzine, interviewing them and attempting to disseminate some of the myths and rumours around them because they do seem to attract quite a bit of that and -in some quarters- often of the negative variety

I feel compelled to tackle that because I'm guilty of peddling this sort of guff about them myself -with no actual grounds for doing so other than other people's conjecture - and do I have any right to? and what do 'we' gain by having a pop at other people within 'indiepop' who seem to be doing rather well and making a success of things (in relative terms)?

Please message me with any opinions or views you might want to express- perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill? The fanzine's being put together in the next week or so, so don't delay

Otherwise this thread is for 'Twee As F*ck!' talk, etc

Thanks

linus

Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by linus » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:17 pm

I've had one response so far and it was rather agreeable so perhaps I've read the situation all askew

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by iainmayfield » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:22 pm

I think part of the problem is the word "Twee" - it started as a derogatry term back in the days of Britpop and unfortunately has stuck as a meaningless and insulting word that is used too often by the media and people who should know better..

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by slow motion » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:39 am

I think they seem cool and outgoing and fun but I'm really not mad for the name, either in an ironic or non-ironic way. I do not consider myself twee so maybe it's a bit of a barrier too. But I wonder if maybe there's a masterplan about to emerge. They've secretly got a nuclear weapon and are just acting nice to build up confidences.

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Carys » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:51 am

I think this is a really good idea. I'll be really curious to hear what other people have to say. (Most people probably know how I feel).

Linus - PM on its way to you.

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Jangloid Mark » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:52 pm

Firstly, let me say I haven't heard the band (will check them out after I've posted this). I must say that I like the name, but, then, I've been into this indiepop stuff for over 20 years, so, I may percieve it differently than most.

The twee tag long predated 'britpop'. I think that in part, it stems from indiepop bands in around the mid 80's presenting themselves, and sometimes being presented as 'anti macho'. Some bands did actively engage in this, but, for others, it wasn't a concious thing....more a semi-political stance that was added by the music press.

That said, twee or not (you can hardly call the Wedding Present/Bogshed/The Groove Farm etc. of being Twee), there are certain attitudes inherent in all types of music, but, as we're focusing on this, I will say - go compare Razorcuts lyrics with say, Whitesnake lyrics. The difference in attitude jumps off the page.

So, where am I going with this? Actually, I'm not sure, but, I'll ramble my way to the destination....I haven't had a good ramble in ages...I've missed it....

If I have to put a label on myself, it would be 'indie pop kid' (it would have simply been 'indie kid' some years ago, but, these days, that seems to mean Kasabian...), rather than 'twee kid', but, I'm quite comfortable with the term twee.

I suspect that the negative connotations of 'Twee', especially for boys, is that it is equated with 'wimpy' or other such nonsense....not an easy label for anyone to give themselves....epecially as there is nothing specific that it is railing against...for some - those who made it into some sort of loose statement way back when, it (or the politics of...) was at least in part to the big hair bands, the macho posturing and so on that was all-pervasive at the time. That's largely diappeared from the mainstream now. Of course, in terms of mainstream male/female roles/role models, we are hardly living in a more enlightened age now (in fact, probably less so), but, that specific thing doesn't permeate pop culture the way it did back then...

So, it could be argued, that the term, and it's historical background are no longer needed - an irrelevance, if you will....I would disagree....it brings to mind th part in George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' where 'Beasts of England' was banned, the reason given was that the revolution was successful but was now over, so, the song was irrelevant. Of course, banning something is not on a par with being a little uneasy with a label (as some clearly are...)...

Anyway, in short, I think it's an excellent name...it wears Twee on it's sleeve and infuses it with a bit of FUN!!! and faux-rebellion....

The biggest thing, here, though, is FUN!!!! I'm going to check the band out, and then listen to some Bob and Pastels records - and I'll be grinning like a goon!!! :) :) :)
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by a layer of chips » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:53 pm

They're not a band, Mark. It's some people who put on gigs and club nights in London.

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Trev » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:12 pm

Kill Twee Pop!

from an ET post about Brilliant Colors:
There’s been a whole bunch of talk round these parts recently about the unwelcome revival of ‘twee’ – an insult in most languages, and certainly mine. Those among us who got called ‘twee’ in the 80s – Edwyn Collins, The Pastels, Trixie’s Big Red Motorbike, The Legend! – never willingly courted the description. To us, it was all punk rock. Individualism. Refusing to follow a hackneyed and frustratingly boring male-dominated path. Much like Vivian Girls or The Lovely Eggs nowadays, right? But now, like ‘indie’, the word has become codified, indicating a style of fashion as much as an approach to music or lifestyle. Jesus. I was once called ‘the Godfather of Cutie’ (which was what twee got called in the 80s) because of my writings in NME – until I moved to Melody Maker and became ‘the Godfather of Grunge’ and thus The Anti-Cutie presumably…
Twee never existed. It was a word used to put 'us' down. It's a word that should be kicked into touch. It's stifling indiepop and giving lazy journalists an easy go to phrase. Not always for the good, either.
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Jangloid Mark » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:20 pm

a layer of chips wrote:They're not a band, Mark. It's some people who put on gigs and club nights in London.
(blushing) I guess that's where my internet seaches were all in vain....
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by iainmayfield » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:53 pm

Jangloid Mark wrote: The twee tag long predated 'britpop'. I think that in part, it stems from indiepop bands in around the mid 80's presenting themselves, and sometimes being presented as 'anti macho'. Some bands did actively engage in this, but, for others, it wasn't a concious thing....more a semi-political stance that was added by the music press.
Mark - back in the day these bands played indiepop - it wasn't twee.. the girls might sometimes have been called "cuties" and the boys were often "fey" - but the word "twee" came as backlash - I should know... I was there!!!

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by a layer of chips » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:03 pm

Can I have your autograph?

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by boney » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:20 pm

iainmayfield wrote:
Jangloid Mark wrote: The twee tag long predated 'britpop'. I think that in part, it stems from indiepop bands in around the mid 80's presenting themselves, and sometimes being presented as 'anti macho'. Some bands did actively engage in this, but, for others, it wasn't a concious thing....more a semi-political stance that was added by the music press.
Mark - back in the day these bands played indiepop - it wasn't twee.. the girls might sometimes have been called "cuties" and the boys were often "fey" - but the word "twee" came as backlash - I should know... I was there!!!
Well what the heck's wrong with reappropriating it?

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Trev » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:07 pm

Giant Isopod wrote:
Well what the heck's wrong with reappropriating it?
Nothing, I guess.

But it's continued association with indiepop, for me, just gives lazy journos another word to use to sneer at the genre. Have you read most of those indiepop articles the Guardian has been trotting out every 6 months or so for the last 3 or 4 years? Or a lot of POBPAH reviews - where twee is still used as snidey remark and the clichéd stereotypes of fey skinny lads, and cupcake eating, rosette wearing girls are paraded as what indiepop is all about. That isn't what indiepop is all about, is it? If it's being re-appropriated, it's not been done very well.
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Jangloid Mark » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:23 pm

Trev wrote:
Giant Isopod wrote:
Well what the heck's wrong with reappropriating it?
Nothing, I guess.

But it's continued association with indiepop, for me, just gives lazy journos another word to use to sneer at the genre. Have you read most of those indiepop articles the Guardian has been trotting out every 6 months or so for the last 3 or 4 years? Or a lot of POBPAH reviews - where twee is still used as snidey remark and the clichéd stereotypes of fey skinny lads, and cupcake eating, rosette wearing girls are paraded as what indiepop is all about. That isn't what indiepop is all about, is it? If it's being re-appropriated, it's not been done very well.
Surely, though, it works the other way around...much of the music press dislikes indiepop - if they find a record they like, it's all 'not every band in the genre is shite'

While I will admit that 'twee' is an easy one for lazy journos, if the word had never existed, it would be something else....also, many of the bands that it gets applied to today are not twee by any stretch....
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by boney » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Trev wrote:
Giant Isopod wrote:
Well what the heck's wrong with reappropriating it?
Nothing, I guess.

But it's continued association with indiepop, for me, just gives lazy journos another word to use to sneer at the genre. Have you read most of those indiepop articles the Guardian has been trotting out every 6 months or so for the last 3 or 4 years? Or a lot of POBPAH reviews - where twee is still used as snidey remark and the clichéd stereotypes of fey skinny lads, and cupcake eating, rosette wearing girls are paraded as what indiepop is all about. That isn't what indiepop is all about, is it? If it's being re-appropriated, it's not been done very well.
Well, let's stop making cupcakes, wearing pretty dresses, dancing badly and MAN UP then!

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Trev » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Jangloid Mark wrote:also, many of the bands that it gets applied to today are not twee by any stretch....
Indeed, which, is where indiepop is being superceded by the often misleading 'twee' tag. I think humblebee or someone on here, started a tagging group on last.fm to tag bands wrongly described as twee. For me, that would be 95% of bands given the tag. But there you go.

Agree, Mark, that journos would use another word. I just find the whole idea of indiepop=twee as laughable, lazy and wrong.
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Carys » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:32 pm

Jangloid Mark wrote:also, many of the bands that it gets applied to today are not twee by any stretch....
Which makes the term even more annoying and even more lazy. There's nothing in the term to reappropriate because it's a term that doesn't even hold.

I've never known though: does "Twee as Fuck" mean really twee, or not at all twee? In the past I've used 'as fuck' to mean both 'very much' and 'not at all'. If it means really twee, they fail because at lot of the music and bands aren't very twee at all. And if it means not at all twee, they fail because they have little rosettes and cupcakes at the door. They just fail, imho.

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Trev » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:36 pm

Giant Isopod wrote: Well, let's stop making cupcakes, wearing pretty dresses, dancing badly and MAN UP then!
MAN UP?

That's such a cool idea. It was PRIDE in London today. Perhaps, we should have all MANNED UP.

All the peripheral things that come with some indiepop shows, are exactly that, peripheral. But they are often taken by the 'music press' at large to be everything that indiepop is about. For me, I can mostly take or leave that cutesy bollocks, it annoyed the fuck out of me in 1987 as it does now. But it's more bloody annoying when good bands get lumped in with all that.
Last edited by Trev on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by boney » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:36 pm

Trev wrote:
Giant Isopod wrote:
Well what the heck's wrong with reappropriating it?
Nothing, I guess.

But it's continued association with indiepop, for me, just gives lazy journos another word to use to sneer at the genre. Have you read most of those indiepop articles the Guardian has been trotting out every 6 months or so for the last 3 or 4 years? Or a lot of POBPAH reviews - where twee is still used as snidey remark and the clichéd stereotypes of fey skinny lads, and cupcake eating, rosette wearing girls are paraded as what indiepop is all about. That isn't what indiepop is all about, is it? If it's being re-appropriated, it's not been done very well.
Surely, though, it works the other way around...much of the music press dislikes indiepop - if they find a record they like, it's all 'not every band in the genre is shite'

While I will admit that 'twee' is an easy one for lazy journos, if the word had never existed, it would be something else....also, many of the bands that it gets applied to today are not twee by any stretch....[/quote]

I don't get why twee is a perjorative... it's got some descriptive power that is valid for a lot of indiepop stuff. Y'know, metal gets a lot of stick for being pretty much the opposite...doesn't really matter, it's just another flavour. To most ambivalents, indiepop is twee. So what! Isn't "twee as fuck" meant as an ironic statement as well? If something was properly twee, it wouldn't defiantly be 'as fuck' as well, surely?

There's worse that gets thrown at the indiepoppers than 'twee', that's for sure.

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Re: Twee As F*ck!

Post by Jangloid Mark » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:37 pm

Trev wrote:I just find the whole idea of indiepop=twee as laughable, lazy and wrong.
Surely, though, the truth is that 'twee' is a sub genre of indiepop?
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